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CSS
by Sebastian Geerken Oct. 23, 2003

Oct. 23, 2003

Hi! At <http://www.dillo.org/CSS.html>, you'll find an updated version of a document I posted quite a while ago. What this text describes, is partly implemented (mainly to test the critical aspects of the design), I may soon make a tarball public, after some cleanups. The further development is unclear, since some parts have been rewritten, incremental development is difficult, and several general tests are necessary (performance, functionality etc). Sebastian

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localhost
by Ivo Oct. 23, 2003

Oct. 23, 2003

Hi all, I noticed the following behaviour, with 0.7.3 and also with the current CVS (just checked out the latest version an hour ago). When I type the following at the location bar: http://www.cnn.com/ Opens the webpage (offcourse) www.cnn.com Opens the webpage (it prepends http://) http://localhost/ Connects to my webserver localhost Connects to my webserver (prepends http://) http://localhost:2317/ It connects to my geneweb server localhost:2317 It fails, saying ERROR: unsupported protocol Is this normal and expected behaviour, or considered a bug? Opera, for example, prepends http:// and all works like expected. --Ivo

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[PATCH] Version 12 of tab/frame/kbnav patch, solves problem with Tab
by Frank de Lange Oct. 23, 2003

Oct. 23, 2003

Hi'all, The next version (12) of my tab/frame/keyboard navigation patch is ready (see bottom of this message for download instructions). No big new features this time, just a useability fix for the Tab key and an update to the latest CVS. Tab now does what you'd expect it to do, cycle through form widgets. I'll spare you the usual list of comments on this release, it would be identical to last release's list anyway... Download instructions ===================== The patch is made against 20031017/11:26GMT CVS. Do not forget to run ./autogen.sh after applying the patch. You can find the patch on the usual (ad-happy, use an ad-blocking proxy or sane browser) site: http://www.geocities.com/ikbenfrank/ More specifically: Dillo 0.8.0-pre (CVS) ===================== http://www.geocities.com/ikbenfrank/dillo-20031017-tabs.patch.gz size: 85658 bytes (gzipped, as downloaded) 373460 bytes (uncompressed) md5sum: be0618ac0136fafd9f7f91ce8a4db142 (gzipped, as downloaded) 41438b3b27bf45f23b6a9069eee37cb6 (uncompressed) As always, check the site for the most recent version Cheers//Frank -- WWWWW ________________________ ## o o\ / Frank de Lange \ }# \| / \ \ `--| _/ <Hacker for Hire> \ `---' \ +46-734352015 / \ frank(a)unternet.org / `------------------------' [ "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est." ]

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Thanks
by Maurice McCarthy Oct. 22, 2003

Oct. 22, 2003

Hi all As a linux learning running Woody from a home pc I'd just like to thank you all for a great browser. Came across it by chance looking for something else then was totally surprised to find it in the Woody CD's! It goes great with Mutt. Fast. Thanks again Maurice

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A short potpourri
by Eythan Weg Oct. 22, 2003

Oct. 22, 2003

Hi, I have read that people use dillo to read documents, long documents, and perhaps whole books, or chapters... In such cases there comes a time when a use of a dictionary is a must. Is it possible to have a dpi that will allow for the running of any shell command on a highlighted portion of the screen? In this example running a dictionary on a word? The output of the command would go into a new tab, or window or split of the current window, horizontally or vertically, depending on the key-binding. On another vein, I have two problems with version 8-pre of about two weeks ago patched with the tab-frame feature (I compiled yesterday's version with the new patch, but could not figure how to start the dpis... can someone tell how in some more details, please?) The first is over-tabbing. For example browsing http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnomemeeting-list/ choose any thread and it opens on a new tab. Read any post and again it opens in a new tab. The second is that copy and/or paste do not work reliably. I am not sure this is dillo's issue though. Sincerely, eythan

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Re: /. crap
by The Night Howler Oct. 19, 2003

Oct. 19, 2003

Some comments on /. stuff : > This is the part where I rhetorically ask why anyone would write a > web browser from scratch, the goal of which is to render 100% > syntactically correct webpages really really fast. Are there not > enough existing web browsers whose goals are to render pages really > really fast? Oh, which ones ? On my P 120, which is my only computer, I tried mozilla and its derivatives - they filled up my 56 Mb of RAM just for loading and took a dozen of minutes to show up even a simple page. This without counting the megabytes they took on my hard-drive. So I had a few choices : either switch back to Windows 98 and Internet Explorer, which *is* in comparison damn fast, or use Lynx on my Debian. Or finding another fast linux-graphical browser. I browsed the net. I tested "browsers" like Chimera2, that no one ever heard about, and was very upset with every browser I tried until I found Dillo. Even if Dillo is very strict regarding HTML compliance of pages, it is, as far as I know, the only Linux graphical browser working correctly on legacy computers. > But I have other things to worry about, and you have > other browsers to choose from that render Slashdot just fine. Yes - it works fine with Lynx. I guess maybe we pushed the issue a little too hard - after all, Slashdot is not the only website that doesn't display correctly on Dillo. As the development philosophy is "stick to the standards", I think we shouldn't care too much about badly formatted pages. Maybe by version 1.0 we can include some kind of "render_uglily_coded_webpage" function to deal with that, but as far as I'm concerned I'm very happy with dillo the way it is. I guess for people like me, who use old computers in everyday's life, using Dillo+Lynx is a very good way of accessing a great part of the web resources. Best regards, Mathieu -- "Just living is not enough," said the butterfly, "one must also have freedom, sunshine, and a little flower." Hans Christian Andersen

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Re: FLTK and Dillo (fwd)
by Jorge Arellano Cid Oct. 18, 2003

Oct. 18, 2003

Hi, Here're Michael's answers: Cheers Jorge.- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:40:53 -0400 From: Michael Sweet <mike(a)easysw.com> To: Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> Subject: Re: FLTK and Dillo Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > ... > 1.- C bindings. > Dillo is written in C while FLTK in C++, is there a way to > bind C code with FLTK? Not directly; since FLTK is based heavily on C++, the easiest way to bind C code to a FLTK-based UI is to do the UI in C++ and provide specific C bindings to/from that UI interface. It might also be possible to generate a whole C binding library to FLTK, but that would be a rather large project and keeping things in sync would be a bitch. > 2.- Unicode, UTF-8. > This was the main reason for considering GTK2. Is FLTK ready > to render Unicode characters? The patched version is, and FLTK 2.0 will fully embrace UTF-8. Rendering of certain languages will likely need work, since the initial version will not likely support the rewriting rules needed for languages like Arabic, Hindi, Vietnamese, etc. Those add a lot of bloat, and coming up with a space/time efficient solution will be a challenge for another day... > 3.- Antialiasing. > Is it possible? Text, yes on all platforms, graphics, yes on OSX. > 4.- Tables, layout? and extensibility > This is maybe the core of it. Currently dillo not only uses > GTK1's widgets, but has its own set: dillo widgets or Dw. > These Dw are embedded into GTK1 widgets, and Dw can also > embedd GTK1 widgets. > > Can we do something alike with FLTK? Yes, via subclassing (which actually makes it a lot simpler than GTK and other toolkits...) There is an excellent table widget in the links pages that Erco has been working on and which will eventually be part of FLTK. The current FLTK layout mechanism is infinitely flexible, but takes a little getting used to since there are no layout "hints", just resizeable widgets inside groups. In short, you group widgets (and sometimes create empty "box" widgets) to get the layout behavior you want. This is actually a lot faster than the older Motif-style layout stuff that GTK+ uses... There are specialized group widgets (Fl_Pack, Fl_Tile, etc.) that provide for special positioning/resizing capabilities separate from the user resizing the window. There is currently no support in 1.x for dynamically-sized labels (e.g. resize a button to hold the localized text), so right now you need to design your UI to leave enough space. FLTK 2.x CVS has some support for this via the specialized Layout widget. > 5.- Keyboard bindings > Is it possible to customize keyboard bindings? Keyboard bindings are generally "compiled in", but your app can override them quite easily. There isn't anything like the GTK1 "press your new shortcut while the menu item is selected" feature, something which was (IIRC) removed from GTK2... :( > 6.- Copy&Paste (clipboard) > Does FLTK provide this? Can it be extended with our custom > widgets inside Dillo? Yes and yes. There is also drag-n-drop support, FWIW... -- ______________________________________________________________________ Michael Sweet, Easy Software Products mike at easysw dot com Printing Software for UNIX http://www.easysw.com

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FLTK and Dillo (fwd)
by Jorge Arellano Cid Oct. 18, 2003

Oct. 18, 2003

Hi guys! Here's a copy of an email I sent to Michael Sweet (maintainer of FLTK). Hold your breath and I'll forward the answers! Cheers Jorge.- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:59:23 -0300 (CLST) From: Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> To: mike(a)easysw.com Subject: FLTK and Dillo Hi Michael! Brief: is it possible to port Dillo to FLTK? We were following our plan to port dillo from GTK1 (currently used TK) to GTK2, when one of our list subscribers suggested considering FLTK because of shared philosophy backgrounds: > [...] > IMHO considering Dillo's concentration on speed and stability, it seems > like it would be more appropriate to port the future Dillo to fltk not > fat bloated GTK2.0. I made a skim visit to FLTK's home and it looked far from being able to supply what we need, but then I came across this comment of yours: <q> "First, the current 1.x release of FLTK is portable to all systems using X11 and has "native" support for Windows and OSX, too. The whole low-level interface to the window system is abstracted via a very thin layer within FLTK, which means that you can easily port it to other environments (there is a version of FLTK for many of the Linux-based PDAs, for example.) The 2.0 release of FLTK (currently in development) will actually have separate modules (a la GDK in the GTK+ world) that implement the device class for various interfaces - X11, Quartz, WIN32, any of several framebuffer APIs, etc. Second, there is a version of FLTK 1.1.x that uses UTF-8 for input and display of Unicode; this will also be part of 2.0." </q> And things started to look interesting... I started a thread on our mailing list to ask for comments from the other developers (subject FLTK): http://news.gmane.org/thread.php?group=gmane.comp.web.dillo.devel I beleive that if it's possible to port Dillo to FLTK, it'd be a great step ahead for both projects. Now, you being the project maintainer of FLTK are among the best ones to ask! :-) In general terms, here're our main concerns: 1.- C bindings. Dillo is written in C while FLTK in C++, is there a way to bind C code with FLTK? 2.- Unicode, UTF-8. This was the main reason for considering GTK2. Is FLTK ready to render Unicode characters? 3.- Antialiasing. Is it possible? 4.- Tables, layout? and extensibility This is maybe the core of it. Currently dillo not only uses GTK1's widgets, but has its own set: dillo widgets or Dw. These Dw are embedded into GTK1 widgets, and Dw can also embedd GTK1 widgets. Can we do something alike with FLTK? 5.- Keyboard bindings Is it possible to customize keyboard bindings? 6.- Copy&Paste (clipboard) Does FLTK provide this? Can it be extended with our custom widgets inside Dillo? That's the core of the problem (AFAIS). It'd be great if we can collaborate to make it happen. Please feel free to answer to me, or to the FLTK thread in our list (it doesn't require a subscription). I'll be looking forward to hear from you. Sincerely Jorge.- http://www.dillo.org/

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dpi patches and dpilib
by Carlos Daniel Ruvalcaba Valenzuela Oct. 18, 2003

Oct. 18, 2003

Hi everybody I have uploaded the patches for dpi autoloading, its kind of inestable, but works, i got to do some fixes, i'll upload updates as they are ready. Just download the tarball, unpack on the src dir, and: $ patch capi.c capi.diff $ patch IO/dpi.c dpi.diff Also i uploaded the dpilib, a helper library to create plugins for dillo. Check all this on: http://earth.prohosting.com/wbuffer Cheers Carlos Daniel Ruvalcaba Valenzuela

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Re: GTK2 performance and Dillo
by Alex Pavloff Oct. 17, 2003

Oct. 17, 2003

I hadn't seen this posted on dillo-dev yet, so I thought I'd forward it along. I'm just the messenger, put the guns away. -------- From: Owen Taylor <otaylor(a)redhat.com> To: Robin Rowe <rower(a)MovieEditor.com> Cc: gtk-app-devel-list(a)gnome.org, Stephen Lewis <slewis(a)paradise.net.nz> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:12:48 -0400 On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 14:09, Robin Rowe wrote: > Hi. Dillo is a very small fast web browser (400kb executable). Stephan > Lewis posted some interesting performances tests yesterday comparing > GTK1 and GTK2 running Dillo. > > Can anyone illuminate further on the size and performance differences > between GTK1 and GTK2? I think these observations are basically irrelevant to most GTK+-2.x applications. GTK+-2.x *is* bigger and slower (this is an almost inevitable consequence of having more features and rendering nicer), but it's not megs bigger and minutes slower. > > Test 1: Base load times > > dillo1 > > Time to load+render: ~1s > > Time to quit: instantaneous > > Size (from top): 7MB > > dillo2 > > Time to load+render: ~3s > > Time to quit: 0.5s (estimated, "felt" slower than dillo1) > > Size: 14MB This is almost a plausible difference between GTK+-1.2 and GTK+-2.0 for a large program; though I suspect that reading the common FAQ's about how to read top sizes would show that the memory difference in actual memory used is much smaller than described above. Small GTK+-2.0 programs load in a few tenths of a second and malloc maybe ~600k of memory on X11. (Probably considerably less on Windows since a large amount that RAM is being used for font lists and fonts.) > > Test2: Loading a 1.8MB html file, styled text, bulletted lists, tables > > of text > > dillo1 > > Time to load: 3s > > extra time to finish rendering: 6s > > Time to quit: ~2s > > Size: 56MB > > dillo2 > > Time to load: 1m20s real according to the time command, more like > > 2m30s due to swapping > > extra time to finish rendering: 10s > > Time to close: 1m20s > > Size: 220MB This is a dillo bug and has nothing to do with GTK+. (Or alternatively dillo is misusing GTK+ badly; if it's creating a GtkLabel per paragraph or something you might get this kind of change. But the 56meg "before" is pretty bad too.) > > A couple of behavioural notes: > > 1) Progressive rendering wasn't useful in dillo2, you get an initial > > draw (which is largely useless), then dillo2 blocks, then the final > > draw. dillo2 issue; the expose models *are* different between GTK+-1.2 and GTK+-2.0. This needs to be taken into account if you are doing something like progressive rendering. Regards, Owen --------

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