- SFD-discuss - lists.mailman3.com

Re: [SFD-discuss] Flickr and other tags - bayimg.com

by Georg Sluyterman

Bruce Kingsbury wrote: >> You have not understood anything of censorship, if you believe that the >> only important thing is if /you/ get censored... >> >> I myself cannot write code to eg. the Linux kernel. Then why is it >> important for me to have software freedom nr. 1? > > You can write all the Linux Kernel code you like, and run it on YOUR > computer. You can't force anyone else to use it, or force Linus to > accept it into his tree. > You missed my point. I am not a hardcore C-programmer, so i cannot change anything in the Linux-kernel. But freedom nr. 1 is important to me because other people can use it, and that indirectly affect me, and because i have the possibility to change it. I don't think censorship is okay, just because it does not affect me directly. > There are a number of other sites I can post my SFD images. I think > Flickr would be highly unlikely to remove them. <---snip--> I never said the would. I just said, that i people here on this mailing list appreciate freedom, and therefore would maybe like another place to put their pictures, because i have read some criticism of Flickr on Slashdot and Digg. You have another wiev on this. So be it. I just think its wrong. -- Regards Georg Sluyterman

Sept. 20, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Flickr and other tags - bayimg.com

by Przemysław Kulczycki

Mahomedalid Pacheco pisze: > We want to see photos about the SFD event! Show us! Photos from Kraków, Poland: http://dustpuppy.if.uj.edu.pl/~str/sfd2007krakow/index.html -- -\ Przemek Kulczycki <--> Azrael Nightwalker /- -/ #==> KNI AE <==> CLUG <==> Ubuntu-PL <==# \- -\ >> jabber id: azrael(a)jabber.autocom.pl << /- -/ > http://reksio.ftj.agh.edu.pl/~azrael/ < \-

Sept. 20, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Flickr and other tags - bayimg.com

by Bruce Kingsbury

> I know. Sadly it has become an accepted word in the public.. > > From Free Software, Free Society: Selected Essays of Richard M. > Stallman, page 194: > > " Publishers often refer to prohibited copying as “piracy.” In this way, > they imply that illegal copying is ethically equivalent to attacking > sships on the high seas, kidnaping and murdering the people on them. If > you don’t believe that illegal copying is just like kidnaping and > murder, you might prefer not to use the word “piracy” to describe it. > Neutral terms such as “prohibited copying” or “unauthorized copying” are > available for use instead. Some of us might even prefer to use a > positive term such as “sharing information with your neighbor.” " When I was a young boy, the word "gay" meant happy or brightly coloured. When I was at high-school it meant homosexual. When my kids use the word, they usually mean "sad and pathetic". English is a living language. If you want words that never change in meaning perhaps you should learn Latin.

Sept. 20, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Flickr and other tags - bayimg.com

by Bruce Kingsbury

> You have not understood anything of censorship, if you believe that the > only important thing is if /you/ get censored... > > I myself cannot write code to eg. the Linux kernel. Then why is it > important for me to have software freedom nr. 1? You can write all the Linux Kernel code you like, and run it on YOUR computer. You can't force anyone else to use it, or force Linus to accept it into his tree. Also, I don't have much problem with the so-called 'censorship' of those who distribute other people's work without their permission. Remember, that includes GPL-abusers like Edimax and (perhaps) Tivo. There are a number of other sites I can post my SFD images. I think Flickr would be highly unlikely to remove them. I could put them on my own site. Or perhaps the most appropriate place would be the softwarefreedomday.org gallery. http://softwarefreedomday.org/gallery/2007/newzealand/hamilton

Sept. 20, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Flickr and other tags - bayimg.com

by Cristóbal Palmer

On 9/19/07, Georg Sluyterman <georg(a)thecrew.dk> wrote: > > I know. Sadly it has become an accepted word in the public.. > > From Free Software, Free Society: Selected Essays of Richard M. > Stallman, page 194: > > " Publishers often refer to prohibited copying as "piracy." In this way, > they imply that illegal copying is ethically equivalent to attacking > sships on the high seas, kidnaping and murdering the people on them. If > you don't believe that illegal copying is just like kidnaping and > murder, you might prefer not to use the word "piracy" to describe it. > Neutral terms such as "prohibited copying" or "unauthorized copying" are > available for use instead. Some of us might even prefer to use a > positive term such as "sharing information with your neighbor." " > > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fsfs/rms-essays.pdf I guess my derail isn't done. While I understand and sympathize with Stallman's sentiment, his assertion about the limited meaning of "piracy" is baseless and fanciful. I'm going to assert fair use in copying briefly from the online version of the OED (Oxford English Dictionary, one of the most respected English language lexigraphic publications), which sadly is not freely available to the general public.  piracy, n. [...] 2. The unauthorized reproduction or use of an invention or work of another, as a book, recording, computer software, intellectual property, etc., esp. as constituting an infringement of patent or copyright [...] [1654 J. MENNES Recreation for Ingenious Head-peeces clxxvi, All the wealth, Of wit and learning, not by stealth, Or Piracy, but purchase got. 1700 E. WARD Journey to Hell II. vii. 14 Piracy, Piracy, they cry'd aloud, What made you print my Copy, Sir, says one, You're a meer Knave, 'tis very basely done. [...]  As you can see from the quotes above (and the OED has many more which I did not quote), the usage of "piracy" to refer to the misappropriation of writings dates back to the 17th century and is well-established. It's hardly a new definition. If polling of the US public is any indicator, people are intelligent enough to understand that copying != piracy in all contexts, and increasingly they understand that openness and freedom to copy liberally actually benefit the economy, including the creators/funders of the material being copied. CentOS isn't killing RHEL. Ubuntu is hardly killing Canonical. Trying to stamp out the use of the word "piracy" in the context of digital works is, I would argue, counter-productive. I'll tell a brief story and then argue my point. The weekend before the Fall semester each year UNC has a big celebration called Fallfest that shows off all the campus student groups. There's free food, music, marching band, etc. etc. The group I co-founded last Spring, COSI (Carolina Open Source Initiative) had a table at Fallfest this year. We had a lot of people walk up to the table. We gave out a lot of copies (200, to be precise) of TheOpenCD. We gave out a lot of copies of a Fedora liveCD. During the evening a girl walked up, saw our sign, and then asked me something roughly like, "Hey, what peer-to-peer networks are good on campus? Like, what's the most popular for getting mp3s?" My response was, "I personally recommend Sneakernet." I'm not kidding. I told her to meet up with her friends and trade CDs in person. I basically have two points here: (1) If I'm to be a copyfighter, I must fight from an unassailable position. That is, my arguments for liberalization of copyright and actions to encourage it have to be clearly and unambiguously within the law. I have to do this because I am the leader of a recognized organization that is trying to effect change in policy, and for me to violate policy is to act in bad faith. (2) We as an Open Source community have become, in the minds of too many people, synonymous with piracy, or at least wanton disregard for the state of copyright law. That Is Bad (TM), especially since I don't believe that such an aggressively anti-copyright attitude is actually pervasive in the community. We must clearly and unambiguously repudiate illegal copying. That doesn't mean we can't simultaneously be good copyfighters. That doesn't mean some of us shouldn't carry out acts of civil disobedience. Just to make sure I'm being clear, I believe US copyright law is in some ways horribly broken and skewed heavily in favor of large corporations that can abuse individuals with the law. I believe we should change the law. I do NOT believe that we should do away with copyright entirely. Law should exist to protect the public good, and there is a legitimate argument to be made that laws governing the copying and distribution of text, images, software and other works are a good thing. After all, the GPL is a legal document, so if you don't buy into copyright law, how exactly do you plan to enforce the GPL? To sum up: for those of us acting within major institutions to try to effect change, we have to make strong moral, economic, and legal arguments for the liberalization of copyright while still staying unambiguously within the existing, broken law. We must condemn pirates and piracy of digital works if we're to be taken seriously when we talk about making good law, and we should get serious about helping to make good law. Sorry for the long rant. I'm sure you agree with me on most of the above, and I hope I'm not coming across as preachy. Also, I'm not claiming anyone here has expressed disdain for copyright. Just trying to explain my position and thinking. :) Cheers, -- Cristóbal M. Palmer celebrating 15 years of sunsite/metalab/ibiblio: http://tinyurl.com/2o8hj4

Sept. 20, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Flickr and other tags - bayimg.com

by Georg Sluyterman

Cristóbal Palmer wrote: > On 9/19/07, Georg Sluyterman <georg(a)thecrew.dk> wrote: >> Btw. you talk about pirates..? Pirates attach ships on the high seas, >> and kidnap and murder people on them ;-) >> If you by 'pirates' mean people that make unauthorized copies, please >> use a term like eg. 'unauthorized copying'. > >  > > There are multiple definitions: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Apiracy&ie=utf-8 > >  > I know. Sadly it has become an accepted word in the public.. >From Free Software, Free Society: Selected Essays of Richard M. Stallman, page 194: " Publishers often refer to prohibited copying as “piracy.” In this way, they imply that illegal copying is ethically equivalent to attacking sships on the high seas, kidnaping and murdering the people on them. If you don’t believe that illegal copying is just like kidnaping and murder, you might prefer not to use the word “piracy” to describe it. Neutral terms such as “prohibited copying” or “unauthorized copying” are available for use instead. Some of us might even prefer to use a positive term such as “sharing information with your neighbor.” " http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/fsfs/rms-essays.pdf -- Regards Georg Sluyterman

Sept. 19, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Flickr and other tags - bayimg.com

by Mahomedalid Pacheco

Sorry because my poor english. RAE = Real Academia Española de la Lengua (Real Spanish Language Academy or something like that xD) On 9/19/07, Mahomedalid Pacheco <mictlan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Yeah, but the definitions in the dictionary reflex the daily use of > the language. For example, here in Mexico we use the term "chingado" > and the RAE adopt that term. > > I think that what Georg tries to say is that "pirate" it's in the > origin a bad word for 'unauthorized copying' for example, and reflex a > bad aspect in the society. > > On 9/19/07, Cristóbal Palmer <cristobalpalmer(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > On 9/19/07, Georg Sluyterman <georg(a)thecrew.dk> wrote: > > > Btw. you talk about pirates..? Pirates attach ships on the high seas, > > > and kidnap and murder people on them ;-) > > > If you by 'pirates' mean people that make unauthorized copies, please > > > use a term like eg. 'unauthorized copying'. > > > >  > > > > There are multiple definitions: > > > > http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Apiracy&ie=utf-8 > > > >  > > > > Cheers, > > -- > > Cristóbal M. Palmer > > celebrating 15 years of sunsite/metalab/ibiblio: > > http://tinyurl.com/2o8hj4 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > SFD-discuss mailing list > > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss > > > > > -- > Mahomedalid Pacheco > ------------------------------------------------- > http://mahomedalidp.blogspot.com > -- Mahomedalid Pacheco ------------------------------------------------- http://mahomedalidp.blogspot.com

Sept. 19, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Flickr and other tags - bayimg.com

by Mahomedalid Pacheco

Yeah, but the definitions in the dictionary reflex the daily use of the language. For example, here in Mexico we use the term "chingado" and the RAE adopt that term. I think that what Georg tries to say is that "pirate" it's in the origin a bad word for 'unauthorized copying' for example, and reflex a bad aspect in the society. On 9/19/07, Cristóbal Palmer <cristobalpalmer(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 9/19/07, Georg Sluyterman <georg(a)thecrew.dk> wrote: > > Btw. you talk about pirates..? Pirates attach ships on the high seas, > > and kidnap and murder people on them ;-) > > If you by 'pirates' mean people that make unauthorized copies, please > > use a term like eg. 'unauthorized copying'. > >  > > There are multiple definitions: > > http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Apiracy&ie=utf-8 > >  > > Cheers, > -- > Cristóbal M. Palmer > celebrating 15 years of sunsite/metalab/ibiblio: > http://tinyurl.com/2o8hj4 > > _______________________________________________ > SFD-discuss mailing list > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss > -- Mahomedalid Pacheco ------------------------------------------------- http://mahomedalidp.blogspot.com

Sept. 19, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Flickr and other tags - bayimg.com

by Cristóbal Palmer

On 9/19/07, Georg Sluyterman <georg(a)thecrew.dk> wrote: > Btw. you talk about pirates..? Pirates attach ships on the high seas, > and kidnap and murder people on them ;-) > If you by 'pirates' mean people that make unauthorized copies, please > use a term like eg. 'unauthorized copying'.  There are multiple definitions: http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Apiracy&ie=utf-8  Cheers, -- Cristóbal M. Palmer celebrating 15 years of sunsite/metalab/ibiblio: http://tinyurl.com/2o8hj4

Sept. 19, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Flickr and other tags - bayimg.com

by Cristóbal Palmer

On 9/19/07, Mahomedalid Pacheco <mictlan(a)gmail.com> wrote: > We want to see photos about the SFD event! Show us! http://flickr.com/search/?q=sfd2007 Cheers, -- Cristóbal M. Palmer celebrating 15 years of sunsite/metalab/ibiblio: http://tinyurl.com/2o8hj4

Sept. 19, 2007