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Re: [SFD-discuss] FLOSS educational programmes

by draicone＠gmail.com

On 10/15/07, Steve Olive <steve(a)bathurst-tafe.nsw.edu.au> wrote: > > <snip> > I would like to see this as well, unfortunately government colleges and > other training organisations don't get funding or the time to do this. > Training today is focused at a "minimum standard of competency" not teaching > all of the skills required. As I said it becomes a Catch 22; the majority of > organisations use Microsoft Office so these are the skills that are expected > when students complete courses. > > <snip> > > I have found that students tend to get enthusiastic about Open Source > Software and they are keen to use the software to help their friends reduce > the costs and security issues of computing. > > It is up to us, the Open Source and Free Software Communities, to > encourage the use of qualifications that do not focus on a particular brand > of software. I also believe that these qualifications should not be > prohibitively priced, preventing students, who are often unemployed, from > taking the tests. They are better served spending the money on computers and > other hardware for use at home so they can better their skills and find > employment. > > Is this something the Software Freedom Day should look into? Registering > or certifying skills with software promoted on Software Freedom Day. > > Sorry, if I have taken this way off topic for the SFD discussion list. > > Regards, > > Steve > What if we started with schools, encouraged them to switch to OO.org and helped them to do so, and made that a focus of next year's SFD events? I ran an SFD event at a local school this year, and met with the information systems department and some high level staff to explain the benefits of FOSS and suggest they consider a pilot project to test the concept. If we can justify switching the software, the courses will follow suit (e.g. this school taught IT using VB6 because that was all they had). The knock-on effects of the generic/FOSS skills in young students will result in more people using FOSS instead of proprietary software. Thoughts?

Oct. 15, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] what comes first

by Janet Hawtin

On 10/15/07, xolani Ndlovu <xolanimart(a)gmail.com> wrote: > well then what comes first the industry adopting FLOSS or people/students > being taught how to use FLOSS .I believe the teaching and training comes > first then then the industry can switch to floss and one cannot justify > using pirated software (its a crime) most companies in Zimbabwe we have > approached are willing to switch but caught in the predicament of > FLOSS literacy.schools are ready to teach floss along side windows. That is wonderful news and I think finding ways to support with training is great stuff!

Oct. 15, 2007

what comes first

by xolani Ndlovu

well then what comes first the industry adopting FLOSS or people/students being taught how to use FLOSS .I believe the teaching and training comes first then then the industry can switch to floss and one cannot justify using pirated software (its a crime) most companies in Zimbabwe we have approached are willing to switch but caught in the predicament of FLOSS literacy.schools are ready to teach floss along side windows. -- member of OpenSourceBulawayo free software as in freedom

Oct. 15, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] FLOSS educational programmes

by Steve Olive

On Sun, 2007-10-14 at 15:03 +1000, draicone(a)gmail.com wrote: > Well, if the course was in-depth enough, and it was engineered > appropriately -- e.g. use of word processing software such as > Microsoft Word and OpenOffice.org -- then the course would be generic > enough to suit our purpose, would teach skills that are useful > immediately and would lower the bias towards MS Office apps. > > There are hundreds of tasks specific to Microsoft Word, but most > people don't need to be familiar with them, and the people who do > (e.g. clerks and secretaries) would want an MS Word specific course > anyway. > I would like to see this as well, unfortunately government colleges and other training organisations don't get funding or the time to do this. Training today is focused at a "minimum standard of competency" not teaching all of the skills required. As I said it becomes a Catch 22; the majority of organisations use Microsoft Office so these are the skills that are expected when students complete courses. I teach using OpenOffice.org and, because they use Microsoft Office for a majority of subjects, my students MUST submit in ODF format electronically for marking. We provide TheOpenCD free of charge to all students for use at home and the required software is installed on the PCs where I teach. I'm lucky that I have had some very supportive Head Teachers over the years and they have supported my "Open Source Advocacy" teaching. I also get students to use other alternatives to Microsoft products like Ubuntu Linux, Open Workbench http://www.openworkbench.org/ and more recently RT: Request Tracker http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/ as part of their courses. I have found that students tend to get enthusiastic about Open Source Software and they are keen to use the software to help their friends reduce the costs and security issues of computing. It is up to us, the Open Source and Free Software Communities, to encourage the use of qualifications that do not focus on a particular brand of software. I also believe that these qualifications should not be prohibitively priced, preventing students, who are often unemployed, from taking the tests. They are better served spending the money on computers and other hardware for use at home so they can better their skills and find employment. Is this something the Software Freedom Day should look into? Registering or certifying skills with software promoted on Software Freedom Day. Sorry, if I have taken this way off topic for the SFD discussion list. Regards, Steve > On 10/14/07, Steve Olive <steve(a)bathurst-tafe.nsw.edu.au> wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 19:13 +1000, draicone(a)gmail.com wrote: > > > > > On 10/13/07, xolani Ndlovu <xolanimart(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > hie eveyone > > > > > > are there any educational programmes that teach > > > computing short courses using FLOSS > > > products ,programmes like ICDL and others?if not, > > > OpenSourceBulawayo and others are going to be working > > > on a parallel or alternative educational programme > > > to ICDL that will teach short computer courses using > > > FLOSS products only since ICDL and other short > > > cources in ZIMBABWE are only taught using Microsoft > > > products only.As we were discussing on how we can get > > > companies and institutions to use Floss we realized > > > that companies send their employees to do ICDL so > > > that they can use computers at their work places. > > > so with programmes like these compinies can switch > > > and get their people to do the programmes.if there are > > > such programmes please let me now so that we save time > > > work on getting them done in zimbabwe too.One of the > > > pioneers (KUDAKWASHE ) of FLOSS in Zimbabwe has set a > > > framework on the programme equivalent to ICDL it goes > > > like this: In the meantime, I hereby volunteer to host > > > the wiki on FLOSS-based > > > ICDL > > > course material here: > > > > > > > > http://www.rukanda.com/wiki/index.php?title=International_Computer_Driving_… > > > <snip> > > > > > > This is all very well, but in the spirit of FOSS, should the use of > > > any particular software package, FOSS or non-FOSS, be even considered? > > > The nature of FOSS pretty much asks for forks, derivatives and > > > alternatives, and any such courses should teach students how to use > > > software packages for a particular purpose, not how to use a > > > particular package. Is this education or training? > > > > > > Especially with the volatile nature of specific FOSS projects (what > > > ever happened to Nvu?), restricting learning to a particular > > > application may leave people with redundant expertise. SFDers should > > > think about encouraging educational institutions to teach generic > > > skills using FOSS, e.g. word processing taught on OO.org, instead of > > > specifically Microsoft Word. > > > > > > The difficulties with this is "industry standards", when people complete > > training they expect, as do employers, that they will be able to > > immediately use those skills when employed, not need more training. > > Unfortunately most PCs use Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office, > > whether legally or from pirated versions. This results in a Catch 22 > > situation, whilst doing the training using FOSS is not hard, students > > won't do these courses because it is not used in industry. > > > > As mentioned by other INGOTS training is focused at OpenOffice.org > > products and learning materials are already available. Another online > > source is: > > > > http://www.tutorialsforopenoffice.org/index.html > > > > The ECDL/ICDL tests are very focused on the use of Microsoft Office > > XP/2003 products to complete the exams. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve > > > > >

Oct. 15, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] FLOSS educational programmes

by draicone＠gmail.com

Well, if the course was in-depth enough, and it was engineered appropriately -- e.g. use of word processing software such as Microsoft Word and OpenOffice.org -- then the course would be generic enough to suit our purpose, would teach skills that are useful immediately and would lower the bias towards MS Office apps. There are hundreds of tasks specific to Microsoft Word, but most people don't need to be familiar with them, and the people who do (e.g. clerks and secretaries) would want an MS Word specific course anyway. On 10/14/07, Steve Olive <steve(a)bathurst-tafe.nsw.edu.au> wrote: > On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 19:13 +1000, draicone(a)gmail.com wrote: > > > On 10/13/07, xolani Ndlovu <xolanimart(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > > hie eveyone > > > > are there any educational programmes that teach > > computing short courses using FLOSS > > products ,programmes like ICDL and others?if not, > > OpenSourceBulawayo and others are going to be working > > on a parallel or alternative educational programme > > to ICDL that will teach short computer courses using > > FLOSS products only since ICDL and other short > > cources in ZIMBABWE are only taught using Microsoft > > products only.As we were discussing on how we can get > > companies and institutions to use Floss we realized > > that companies send their employees to do ICDL so > > that they can use computers at their work places. > > so with programmes like these compinies can switch > > and get their people to do the programmes.if there are > > such programmes please let me now so that we save time > > work on getting them done in zimbabwe too.One of the > > pioneers (KUDAKWASHE ) of FLOSS in Zimbabwe has set a > > framework on the programme equivalent to ICDL it goes > > like this: In the meantime, I hereby volunteer to host > > the wiki on FLOSS-based > > ICDL > > course material here: > > > > > http://www.rukanda.com/wiki/index.php?title=International_Computer_Driving_… > > <snip> > > > > This is all very well, but in the spirit of FOSS, should the use of > > any particular software package, FOSS or non-FOSS, be even considered? > > The nature of FOSS pretty much asks for forks, derivatives and > > alternatives, and any such courses should teach students how to use > > software packages for a particular purpose, not how to use a > > particular package. Is this education or training? > > > > Especially with the volatile nature of specific FOSS projects (what > > ever happened to Nvu?), restricting learning to a particular > > application may leave people with redundant expertise. SFDers should > > think about encouraging educational institutions to teach generic > > skills using FOSS, e.g. word processing taught on OO.org, instead of > > specifically Microsoft Word. > > > The difficulties with this is "industry standards", when people complete > training they expect, as do employers, that they will be able to > immediately use those skills when employed, not need more training. > Unfortunately most PCs use Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office, > whether legally or from pirated versions. This results in a Catch 22 > situation, whilst doing the training using FOSS is not hard, students > won't do these courses because it is not used in industry. > > As mentioned by other INGOTS training is focused at OpenOffice.org > products and learning materials are already available. Another online > source is: > > http://www.tutorialsforopenoffice.org/index.html > > The ECDL/ICDL tests are very focused on the use of Microsoft Office > XP/2003 products to complete the exams. > > Regards, > > Steve > >

Oct. 14, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] FLOSS educational programmes

by Steve Olive

On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 19:13 +1000, draicone(a)gmail.com wrote: > On 10/13/07, xolani Ndlovu <xolanimart(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > hie eveyone > > are there any educational programmes that teach > computing short courses using FLOSS > products ,programmes like ICDL and others?if not, > OpenSourceBulawayo and others are going to be working > on a parallel or alternative educational programme > to ICDL that will teach short computer courses using > FLOSS products only since ICDL and other short > cources in ZIMBABWE are only taught using Microsoft > products only.As we were discussing on how we can get > companies and institutions to use Floss we realized > that companies send their employees to do ICDL so > that they can use computers at their work places. > so with programmes like these compinies can switch > and get their people to do the programmes.if there are > such programmes please let me now so that we save time > work on getting them done in zimbabwe too.One of the > pioneers (KUDAKWASHE ) of FLOSS in Zimbabwe has set a > framework on the programme equivalent to ICDL it goes > like this: In the meantime, I hereby volunteer to host > the wiki on FLOSS-based > ICDL > course material here: > > http://www.rukanda.com/wiki/index.php?title=International_Computer_Driving_… > <snip> > > This is all very well, but in the spirit of FOSS, should the use of > any particular software package, FOSS or non-FOSS, be even considered? > The nature of FOSS pretty much asks for forks, derivatives and > alternatives, and any such courses should teach students how to use > software packages for a particular purpose, not how to use a > particular package. Is this education or training? > > Especially with the volatile nature of specific FOSS projects (what > ever happened to Nvu?), restricting learning to a particular > application may leave people with redundant expertise. SFDers should > think about encouraging educational institutions to teach generic > skills using FOSS, e.g. word processing taught on OO.org, instead of > specifically Microsoft Word. The difficulties with this is "industry standards", when people complete training they expect, as do employers, that they will be able to immediately use those skills when employed, not need more training. Unfortunately most PCs use Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office, whether legally or from pirated versions. This results in a Catch 22 situation, whilst doing the training using FOSS is not hard, students won't do these courses because it is not used in industry. As mentioned by other INGOTS training is focused at OpenOffice.org products and learning materials are already available. Another online source is: http://www.tutorialsforopenoffice.org/index.html The ECDL/ICDL tests are very focused on the use of Microsoft Office XP/2003 products to complete the exams. Regards, Steve

Oct. 14, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] FLOSS educational programmes

by Larry Cafiero

I'm not sure I'm following this thread correctly -- and if I'm not, forgive me -- but for course management, there's a FOSS program out of New Zealand called Moodle. You can find it at http://moodle.org if need be. I agree with an earlier post that schools should teach more than one "brand" of program in a course, i.e., more than just Word for word processing, etc. Larry Cafiero HeliOS Solutions West Felton, California, USA "Bringing FOSS to the Redwoods" On 10/13/07, Janet Hawtin <lucychili(a)gmail.com> wrote: > On 10/13/07, xolani Ndlovu <xolanimart(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Xolani > > That sounds great > > There is this site > http://theingots.org/ > Which has a method around which people are making courses. > > And this EU site which is collecting training material > http://selfproject.eu/ > > There is plenty of room for people to make good coursework and > educational resources for open source software so any work in this > area would be wonderful to see. =) > > Janet > > > _______________________________________________ > SFD-discuss mailing list > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss >

Oct. 13, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] FLOSS educational programmes

by Bruce Kingsbury

On Sat, 2007-10-13 at 01:55 -0700, xolani Ndlovu wrote: > > > On 13/10/2007, xolani Ndlovu <xolanimart(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > > hie eveyone > > are there any educational programmes that teach computing > short courses using FLOSS products INGOTS? http://www.theingots.org/

Oct. 13, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] FLOSS educational programmes

by draicone＠gmail.com

On 10/13/07, xolani Ndlovu <xolanimart(a)gmail.com> wrote: > > hie eveyone > > > > are there any educational programmes that teach computing short courses > > using FLOSS products ,programmes like ICDL and others?if not, > > OpenSourceBulawayo and others are going to be working on a parallel or > > alternative educational programme to ICDL that will teach short computer > > courses using FLOSS products only since ICDL and other short cources in > > ZIMBABWE are only taught using Microsoft products only.As we > > were discussing on how we can get companies and institutions to use Floss > > we realized that companies send their employees to do ICDL so that they can > > use computers at their work places. > > so with programmes like these compinies can switch and get their people > > to do the programmes.if there are such programmes please let me now so > > that we save time work on getting them done in zimbabwe too.One of the > > pioneers (KUDAKWASHE ) of FLOSS in Zimbabwe has set a framework on the > > programme equivalent to ICDL it goes like this: In the meantime, I > > hereby volunteer to host the wiki on FLOSS-based > > ICDL > > course material here: > > > > > > http://www.rukanda.com/wiki/index.php?title=International_Computer_Driving_… > > > <snip> > > > This is all very well, but in the spirit of FOSS, should the use of any particular software package, FOSS or non-FOSS, be even considered? The nature of FOSS pretty much asks for forks, derivatives and alternatives, and any such courses should teach students how to use software packages for a particular purpose, not how to use a particular package. Is this education or training? Especially with the volatile nature of specific FOSS projects (what ever happened to Nvu?), restricting learning to a particular application may leave people with redundant expertise. SFDers should think about encouraging educational institutions to teach generic skills using FOSS, e.g. word processing taught on OO.org, instead of specifically Microsoft Word.

Oct. 13, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] FLOSS educational programmes

by Janet Hawtin

On 10/13/07, xolani Ndlovu <xolanimart(a)gmail.com> wrote: Hi Xolani That sounds great There is this site http://theingots.org/ Which has a method around which people are making courses. And this EU site which is collecting training material http://selfproject.eu/ There is plenty of room for people to make good coursework and educational resources for open source software so any work in this area would be wonderful to see. =) Janet

Oct. 13, 2007