- SFD-discuss - lists.mailman3.com

Re: [SFD-discuss] the name of the game

by Kevin Cole

And in the spirit of the late, great American humorist George Carlin's frequent riffs on "English: it's a silly language", I marvel that "individual freedoms" have nothing in common with the "freedom of individuals". ;-) I'll stop now.

Aug. 10, 2012

Re: [SFD-discuss] the name of the game

by Kevin Cole

As already pointed out, there's the Free beer (gratis) vs. Free speech (libre) as a means to distinguish between two common English uses of the word "free". But, it sounds to me as if your language problem might be with the word "software". Again, since I don't know Russian, I fall back to the English word "speech". By the same logic you used, speech can't be "free" or "enslaved" exactly. And we don't usually use the phrase "speech freedom" but instead, refer to "free speech" as "freedom of speech" and refer to individuals as being "free to speak". What about "free trade" and terms that mean unrestricted and / or unencumbered? "Free Software" and "Software Freedom" are expressing what individuals are able to freely do with the materials provided, with the caveat that those freedoms are immutable even though the materials are VERY mutable. So, are there parallel linguistic constructs in Russian that would convey the same ideas? "Free to recode, reuse, etc."?

Aug. 10, 2012

Re: [SFD-discuss] What's this year's swag?

by Frederic Muller - DFI

On 08/10/2012 02:18 AM, Kevin Cole wrote: > Hi, > > I regret (a) not being more active on mailing lists, and (b) only JUST > getting around to registering for this year's SFD, three days ago. So, > I've missed the swag deadline, I think. (An old message said July 15 was > the deadline, but the site said August 7.) In any case, I figure "first > come, first serve" will have eliminated me. > > But, out of idle curiosity, what's the swag box contain this year? > -- > Hi! No you haven't missed the deadline: we've been pushing it back again and again due to logistic issues. So if you did say you wanted them and entered your address, you'll get them. If not... email me off the list, we'll fix that. Swag content is similar to last year: - 3 t-shirts - 1 banner - 2 DVDs (OpenDisc and Free Culture Disc) - Stickers, balloons, iron-on transfers And we still haven't shipped, because the DVDs have been late to be mastered and for the other reasons I mentioned in a previous email. Hopefully we should be able to ship within a week. Some of you may not receive the swag on time for the event, but most likely you'll be the same as last year. So you'll probably have the 2011 swag all ready for this year event and since we didn't put any date on, they will work just fine :D For new teams, you'll be able to use them either later in the year, or in 2013. Fred

Aug. 10, 2012

Re: [SFD-discuss] the name of the game

by Marcos Marado

On Friday 10 August 2012 10:32:20 Ivan Shmakov wrote: > > Well, this e-mail points to some links, but fails to substantiate > > > this sentence pointing to such a link. > > There was a discussion in planning-ru@, started with [3] > (“… software cannot be neither free nor enslaved — simply > because software lacks freedom of will and possibility of a > choice…”; translation's mine.) The concerns were also raised in > the comments to [4] (“… Personally, I'm against the freedom for > tools, be it an axe, a hammer, or a program…”; translation's > mine.) > > [3] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.foss.sfd.planning.ru/65 > [4] http://linux.org.ru/news/conference/7969998 Well, once again this might be a linguistic problem (and take into account that even my english is far from perfect, so take my interpretations with a grain of salt). But this seems to me the same argument we've seen about "free information". When you speak about "free information" you aren't implying that "information wants to be free", and, in fact, "information doesn't want to be free, people do". The same applies to free software: software doesn't want to be free, people do. Free software is software that enables *people* to be free, and here you can actually use free vs. enslaved - if you use non-free software, you're getting enslaved. In free software, it isn't the software that is free, it's its users. Pointing once again to http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html : "“Free software” means software that respects users' freedom and community. Roughly, the users have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. With these freedoms, the users (both individually and collectively) control the program and what it does for them." There's actually a Russian translation of that text - http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.ru.html - I'm not sure about its translation quality, but maybe you could take a look and possibly reply to those arguments by pointing to that text. Best regards, -- Marcos Marado ANSOL.org

Aug. 10, 2012

Re: [SFD-discuss] free software-themed materials

by Frederic Muller - DFI

On 08/10/2012 01:24 AM, Ivan Shmakov wrote: > In planning-ru@, an effort was started to design “Join us on > SFD” flyers, with a note on a “featured” software on the > reverse. A number of prominent free software packages was > suggested (including, e. g., Emacs, Firefox, FlightGear, > GNU Octave, VLC, etc.), and the text for such notes was quickly > scraped off (sometimes subject to translation into Russian) from > the respective Wikipedia articles and projects' own Web pages. > > Unfortunately, there was a catch: contrary to Wikipedia, the Web > pages maintained as part of free software projects aren't > necessarily free by themselves. > > Now, we have a couple of such examples at hand. I've asked in > the respective mailing list for one (and waiting for an answer), > and will probably ask for another, too. > > Meanwhile, what are the other ideas for promotional materials > mentioning particular free software? Are there prominent free > posters or videos (dedicated to prominent free software) we can > show at SFD (translating if necessary)? > > TIA. > You can find some stuff on the SFD wiki here: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/Marketing which links to a few more pages in the wiki itself. Notably http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/Resources does contain flyers and some slides which can be "flyer-ized" (and maybe updated). One of my todos is to check all the slides and refresh them. I'm unfortunately unable to commit at this time. FOSS stuff on DVDs is not up-to-date yet. Fred

Aug. 10, 2012

Re: [SFD-discuss] the name of the game

by Frederic Muller - DFI

On 08/10/2012 01:09 AM, Ivan Shmakov wrote: > [There were a few points raised, or hinted at, in planning-ru@, > which I think may demand a wider audience. Below comes the > first one.] > > It was observed that the Software Freedom Day is more than just > occasionally called “Free Software Day” in Russian — a > difference that's a bit hard to notice given that it's only a > matter of suffix (or, rather, ending) there: > > “День /свободы/ программного обеспечения” (Software Freedom) > > vs. > > “День /свободного/ программного обеспечения” (Free Software.) > > It doesn't help that the “Free Software” variant of the name is > used by certain teams (more or less consistently) since at least > 2007 [1] (though “Software Freedom” appears since 2004 [2].) > > [1] http://www.linux.org.ru/news/opensource/2135552 > [2] http://www.linux.org.ru/news/sco/642283#comment-642440 > > The proponents of the “Free Software” variant argue that > “software freedom” is as much a nonsensical notion as “software > slavery” is. It's said that it's the /user/ freedom that's at > stake; and as it's Free Software that frees the user, the Day > should be called after it. > > It should be mentioned that French and Ukrainian Wikipedia > articles for SFD are seemingly titled after “Free Software”, too > (though I'm by no means fluent in these languages): > > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journée_du_logiciel_libre > http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/День_Вільного_ПЗ > > Any comments? > > TIA. > Hi! Before this goes any further the name of the day is indeed Software Freedom Day and not Free Software Day as it is a day to promote Free AND OPEN Source Software. Now we (SFI/DFI) will never venture into official translations and let local teams translate the way which makes sense for them and their event. If some prefer to only promote Free Software, so be it. It's a shame they would miss out talking about Firefox for example, which surely is a piece of software some Windows users at their event might have heard of (or event be using without knowing it is Open Source). And this gives me the opportunity to remind that the day is geared toward reaching out to people who are not familiar with Free And Open Source Software. I would keep any similar debate as far away from the event as possible in order to avoid making those potential new user confused and feel FOSS is complicated (and that we don't even agree with each others). In French it's a non issue as there is only "logiciel libre". In English I have always found that the expression Free Software and the word Freedom associated with Software is confusing to people not in the know. I can truly understand why some people had issues selling "Free Software" ("didn't you say it was free?" "ah..."). Besides since I've been living in non-English speaking countries I have always found that people tend to think Open Source is Free Software. So excluding Open Source Sofware would be a very stupid move as we would be denying half of the world (at least) a celebration of the software they love to use and want to share with everyone else. SFI and SFD is an inclusive celebration and should remain that way. I hope I have addressed your questions. Thanks. Fred

Aug. 10, 2012

Re: [SFD-discuss] the name of the game

by Ivan Shmakov

>>>>> Marcos Marado <mindboosternoori(a)gmail.com> writes: >>>>> On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Ivan Shmakov <oneingray(a)gmail.com> wrote: >> “День /свободы/ программного обеспечения” (Software Freedom) >> vs. >> “День /свободного/ программного обеспечения” (Free Software.) >> [1] http://www.linux.org.ru/news/opensource/2135552 >> [2] http://www.linux.org.ru/news/sco/642283#comment-642440 >> The proponents of the “Free Software” variant argue that “software >> freedom” is as much a nonsensical notion as “software slavery” is. > Well, this e-mail points to some links, but fails to substantiate > this sentence pointing to such a link. There was a discussion in planning-ru@, started with [3] (“… software cannot be neither free nor enslaved — simply because software lacks freedom of will and possibility of a choice…”; translation's mine.) The concerns were also raised in the comments to [4] (“… Personally, I'm against the freedom for tools, be it an axe, a hammer, or a program…”; translation's mine.) [3] http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.user-groups.foss.sfd.planning.ru/65 [4] http://linux.org.ru/news/conference/7969998 > I've never heard of this, but I'm 100% positive that “free software” > as it is used — even in their name! — by “Free Software Foundation” > isn't to represent a “nonsensical notion”, but to talk about software > that is free. *Free Software* is “software in freedom”, “software > freedom” is the whole concept — of which every free software is a > practical example. The issue at hand is that, somehow, there're those who reject “software freedom” (as a particular wording), while still accepting “free software.” Please also note that I'm not taking sides on this. I'm fine with either name, and my primary concern is that the use of different names could lead to a Swiftian “Little-Endian” vs. “Big-Endian” conflict of some sort. > More about what is free software here: > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html > Note: while this is the case at least in English and in Portuguese, > there might be a linguistic “trick” regarding this words in Russian, > even if I don't think so. Neither do I. Nevertheless, Russian Wiktionary lists “рабство” (“slavery”) as an antonym for “свобода” (“freedom”), while English Wiktionary doesn't seem to do the same. Perhaps, there's indeed something to do with the interlingual differences? -- FSF associate member #7257 http://sf-day.org/

Aug. 10, 2012

Re: [SFD-discuss] the name of the game

by Marcos Marado

Hi, On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 6:09 PM, Ivan Shmakov <oneingray(a)gmail.com> wrote: [...] > "День /свободы/ программного обеспечения" (Software Freedom) > > vs. > > "День /свободного/ программного обеспечения" (Free Software.) [...] > [1] http://www.linux.org.ru/news/opensource/2135552 > [2] http://www.linux.org.ru/news/sco/642283#comment-642440 > > The proponents of the "Free Software" variant argue that > "software freedom" is as much a nonsensical notion as "software > slavery" is. Well, this e-mail points to some links, but fails to substantiate this sentence pointing to such a link. I've never heard of this, but I'm 100% positive that "free software" as it is used - even in their name! - by "Free Software Foundation" isn't to represent a "nonsensical notion", but to talk about software that is free. *Free Software* is "software in freedom", "software freedom" is the whole concept - of which every free software is a practical example. More about what is free software here: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html Note: while this is the case at least in English and in Portuguese, there might be a linguistic "trick" regarding this words in Russian, even if I don't think so. Best regards, -- Marcos Marado ANSOL.org

Aug. 9, 2012

What's this year's swag?

by Kevin Cole

Hi, I regret (a) not being more active on mailing lists, and (b) only JUST getting around to registering for this year's SFD, three days ago. So, I've missed the swag deadline, I think. (An old message said July 15 was the deadline, but the site said August 7.) In any case, I figure "first come, first serve" will have eliminated me. But, out of idle curiosity, what's the swag box contain this year? --

Aug. 9, 2012

free software-themed materials

by Ivan Shmakov

In planning-ru@, an effort was started to design “Join us on SFD” flyers, with a note on a “featured” software on the reverse. A number of prominent free software packages was suggested (including, e. g., Emacs, Firefox, FlightGear, GNU Octave, VLC, etc.), and the text for such notes was quickly scraped off (sometimes subject to translation into Russian) from the respective Wikipedia articles and projects' own Web pages. Unfortunately, there was a catch: contrary to Wikipedia, the Web pages maintained as part of free software projects aren't necessarily free by themselves. Now, we have a couple of such examples at hand. I've asked in the respective mailing list for one (and waiting for an answer), and will probably ask for another, too. Meanwhile, what are the other ideas for promotional materials mentioning particular free software? Are there prominent free posters or videos (dedicated to prominent free software) we can show at SFD (translating if necessary)? TIA. -- FSF associate member #7257 http://sf-day.org/

Aug. 9, 2012