- SFD-discuss - lists.mailman3.com

SFD Wiki templates: in Russian

by Ivan Shmakov

Yesterday, I've added a few templates to the SFD Wiki — now in Russian, which I hereby request comments on. http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/CountryRuTemplate http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/CityRuTemplate http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/TeamRuTemplate It was also noted by Frederic Muller (in a private communication) that the Wiki may have the CountryRuTemplate invocation added to http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2013, provided that the teams from different countries may want their country page in Russian. Indeed, Russian enjoys some kind of official status in several countries (check, e. g., [1]), and, AIUI, there's a more or less active Russian-speaking free software community in Ukraine. There used to also be one in Kazakhstan (e. g., http://gnu.kz/) and I was able to contact one of its members a year ago or so. But to the best of his knowledge, that community was no longer active. (Although there was a team from there last year [2].) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language [2] http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2012/Kazakhstan Which makes me ask: would those registering events in the countries where Russian is spoken by a considerable part of the population like their country pages (or any other pages, for that matter) be in Russian? Two more notes: • until now, all the Russian city and team page /names/ were in English (like: /2013/Russia/Barnaul/ASU); but as we now have the “Добавить город” and “Создать страницу” (instead of “Create city” and “Create team,” respectively), we may end up with the teams creating pages with /names/ in Russian (like: /2013/Russia/Барнаул/АлтГУ, or even /2013/Россия/Барнаул/АлтГУ); which has its pro's and cons.; • we may also face a situation where teams from a single country, such as Canada or Ukraine, may want their pages, and those of their cities, in different languages, such as English and French, and Russian and Ukrainian, respectively; I doubt this can be helped much with the current per-language (as opposed to: per-country) templates; any suggestions on this? -- FSF associate member #7257 Вчера я внес в SFD Wiki несколько новых, русскоязычных шаблонов: http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/CountryRuTemplate http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/CityRuTemplate http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/TeamRuTemplate Мне бы хотелось, чтобы кто-либо из русскоговорящего сообщества проверил их на предмет опечаток, ошибок, etc. Также, Frederic Muller отметил, что вызов шаблона CountryRuTemplate может быть добавлен к http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2013, при условии, что представители других стран (кроме РФ) будут заинтересованы в создании соответствующих страниц на русском. Действительно, русский язык является официальным в нескольких граничащих с РФ странах (см., e. g., [1].) В частности, AIUI, существует активное украинское русскоязычное сообщество свободного ПО. Такое сообщество было и в Казахстане (e. g., http://gnu.kz/) и мне удалось связаться с его представителем около года назад. Увы, с его слов, это сообщество более не активно. (Впрочем, одна команда все же отметилась на Wiki [2] в прошлом году.) [1] https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Русский_язык [2] http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/2012/Kazakhstan Откуда вопрос: не будут ли регистрирующие мероприятия в странах с существенной долей русскоязычного населения заинтересованы в русскоязычной странице страны (равно как и города и команды)? Еще два замечания: • до сих пор, /названия/ страниц русскоязычных команд и их городов были на английском (/2013/Russia/Barnaul/ASU); теперь, когда в формах упоминается «Добавить город» и «Создать страницу» (вместо «Create city» и «Create team,» соответственно), не окажется ли, что команды начнут использовать русскоязычные /названия/ страниц (/2013/Russia/Барнаул/АлтГУ, /2013/Россия/Барнаул/АлтГУ)? у такого подхода есть свои преимущества и недостатки; • можно также столкнуться с ситуацией, когда команды одной страны (Канада, Украина) могут пожелать использовать различные языки для своих страниц, и страниц своих городов (английский и французский; русский и украинский); чему использование шаблонов, специфичных для языка (против: для страны) не особенно способствует; предложения? -- FSF associate member #7257

June 27, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] http://*.softwarefreedomday.org/ localization issues

by Ivan Shmakov

>>>>> Frederic Muller - DFF <fred(a)digitalfreedomfoundation.org> writes: […] > Thanks for the feedback as it is definitely needed. The wiki is > running Moinmoin which is free software and not written by us. Our > mastery of the said software can be poor in some areas but I will try > to address the issues I know of: > - translations are provided by the community and while "they" know > that SFD 2013 has been launched they might not have had the time to > update its content. Curiously, are there any “submission guidelines” published for those volunteering to update (or write) these pages? > The updated pages have been done by us and we can only wait. I am > not aware of anyway to place those non-updated pages in a temporary > status giving access only to people willing to update them. As per my experience with MediaWiki and Ikiwiki, a wiki page containing a redirect will still be available for edits, even if it may require some trick to access it. Provided that MoinMoin behaves the same (and I guess it should), the way to go would be to place explicit redirects to FrontPage on all the pages yet to be updated. Whenever the community feels that the page is ready, the redirect is removed, and the page is served normally from then on. (Until some time after the event, when the redirects are reinstated.) > For the pages using only default Moinmoin templates there might be a > way to avoid those from appearing. Isn't it possible to just remove all the “template” front pages? Alternatively, adding redirects to FrontPage to /all/ the MoinMoin front page templates may solve the issue. Of those I've mentioned, this issue is probably the most important, as for now, one trying to access the wiki with a specifically (and, arguably: properly) configured browser may land on the template, with no obvious way to go further. > Not sure what you're saying about sf-day.org. For me it redirected > to the www site which shows in the browser default language or > English. Some languages have been added as some parts have been > translated, but not all. And if it's not translated then it appears > in English. Indeed, it behaves reasonably in this respect. My question is, however: how does the community suggests the translations? I still hope that a much larger portion of the site could be translated into a variety of languages. > For wiki templates it's just a matter of creating them. I usually > update them every year. There can be a few differences between > countries as some require provinces and some don't. But again there > is no limitation on the wiki and we do monitor its changes. So, anyone's free to create such templates? (I guess I should now refer to the MoinMoin documentation to understand how.) (Frankly, I don't think that it's all that necessary to include the provinces, or even the countries, into the hierarchy, — much the same as for the continents, — but it's a different matter.) > Again Mailman is obviously not maintained by us. If there is any > specific requests (we have native speakers with admin rights for all > non-English lists) and improvements we can do we definitely should. > I can see that the Spanish list page is in Spanish, it's not the case > for the Russian nor the Portuguese list. As it seems, while only parts of the planning-pt's page are translated, the planning-ru's one appears to be translated in full. However, I was talking about the Mailman's listinfo page (http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo) specifically, and the mailing lists' descriptions in particular: Planning-es Discussions about planning for SFD (spanish) Planning-pt Discussions about planning for SFD (Portuguese) Planning-ru Discussions about planning for SFD (Russian) My suggestion would be to have these description written in the respective languages, as in, e. g.: Planning-ru [Russian] Обсуждения подготовки Дня на русском языке > I unfortunately do not speak those languages but can take a look into > it. […] -- FSF associate member #7257

June 26, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] http://*.softwarefreedomday.org/ localization issues

by Frederic Muller - DFF

Hi! Thanks for the feedback as it is definitely needed. The wiki is running Moinmoin which is free software and not written by us. Our mastery of the said software can be poor in some areas but I will try to address the issues I know of: - translations are provided by the community and while "they" know that SFD 2013 has been launched they might not have had the time to update its content. The updated pages have been done by us and we can only wait. I am not aware of anyway to place those non-updated pages in a temporary status giving access only to people willing to update them. For the pages using only default Moinmoin templates there might be a way to avoid those from appearing. Not sure what you're saying about sf-day.org. For me it redirected to the www site which shows in the browser default language or English. Some languages have been added as some parts have been translated, but not all. And if it's not translated then it appears in English. For wiki templates it's just a matter of creating them. I usually update them every year. There can be a few differences between countries as some requires provinces and some don't. But again there is no limitation on the wiki and we do monitor its changes. Again Mailman is obviously not maintained by us. If there is any specific requests (we have native speakers with admin rights for all non-English lists) and improvements we can do we definitely should. I can see that the Spanish list page is in Spanish, it's not the case for the Russian nor the Portuguese list. I unfortunately do not speak those languages but can take a look into it. I hope I've clarified a few of the issues, some unfortunately are not a simply YES/NO/LET'S DO IT , or at least require a different way of doing things. Thanks. Fred On 06/25/2013 02:46 AM, Ivan Shmakov wrote: > Visiting the SFD Web sites recently, I've spotted a few > localization issues, with at least one that may end up being > particularly confusing to the newcomers. > > > The case of the lost page > > The first and foremost is that with languages other than > English (en) configured as preferred in the browser settings, > the Wiki's “front page” (http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/) > may unexpectedly fail to deliver any useful information on the > current event. > > A quick test reveals that at least the following pages are > served under different settings: > > es PáginaInicial > in मुखपृष्ठ > ja フロントページ > ru ГлавнаяСтраница > > Of them, the Spanish (es) and Hindi (in) pages seem to be > outdated (showing the information on the 2012 event), while the > Japanese (ja) and Russian (ru) pages seem to contain only the > MoinMoin templates. (This is in contrast to the PageD'Accueil > page for ‘fr’, which appears to be in a usable state.) > > My suggestion would be to show the English ‘FrontPage’ at > http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/ for a browser-configured > language until (and unless) the respective “localized” page is > brought into existent and up-to-date state. (And how does the > community contribute, BTW?) > > Also to note is that the engine seems to ignore the order of the > preferred languages (as configured via the browser settings), > which also may be quite confusing. But I'm unsure on that. > > > Texts and templates > > This issue is simple, yet (IIRC) long-standing. The truth is: > irrespective of the ability to change the preferred language, > one wouldn't consider http://sf-day.org/ to be very informative > to anyone but an English speaker, as the pages there are > virtually unlocalized. Which makes me wonder if some community > effort is anticipated there as well? > > And, the same question arises on the matter of localization of > the Wiki templates, such as CityEnTemplate and TeamEnTemplate. > Curiously, how does one submit suggested localizations for > these? (I guess there should be a Wiki page explaining this?) > > > The mailing lists > > Well, I'm unsure if GNU Mailman supports i18n and l10n well, but > my guess is that at least the descriptions for the non-English > lists (as shown on http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo) may > safely be translated into the respective expected languages of > communication. > > For instance, the description for planning-ru@ may look like: > “[Russian] Обсуждения подготовки Дня на русском языке”. > > I believe that this change may make this list of lists a tiny > bit more accessible to those having trouble with English. > (Obviously, having the GNU Mailman interface localized would > contribute much more to the accessibility, but changing only the > description may end up being much easier than that.) >

June 26, 2013

An improved registration/wiki page process?

by Frederic Muller - DFF

Hi! Everyone is currently using both 'our' wiki (not that we wrote the software) and our registration process to tell the world they are running SFD: obviously the process is not perfect and we have for quite some time been thinking of improving the process. Among the current weaknesses I'd like to highlight the one I am aware of: - each new year requires participants to copy country and city information (or not...) - some people do not use the templates available or don't spend the extra time to update country, city and links to their pages - some people are just simply confused by the wiki - the tags which help to find teams/events are not always kept, or modified without much thinking - some teams just create the wiki page and do not go through the registration process - the event description which is requested on the form is not copied to the team wiki page - some teams feel that they should be the only team in their area to promote SFD and therefore remove the ease to add a new team. And the fact that some teams just create the default team page and never ever modify it. But that's probably a different issue ;-) The map and the wiki are for potential visitors to find out that there is an event in their area. Some teams do beautiful and very informative pages. Some run their own website and present the event as a complimentary activity to what they are already doing, and it's great either way. As we announced in the past, the software we're maintaining for the registration process is Free Software. We haven't published it yet because it sucks. It's hard to install, hard to change the date and keep the whole thing updated. Maps pointers can't be easily updated as well. So it's time to make a change to that! We still feel that providing the wiki gives people an easy way to have a page (or more) to display the event, saving them hosting and more. But maybe we're wrong and we should just have a basic page with simple details on it? Again at registration time we expect a lot of things to change... The wiki also allows for a lot of extra information to be added but could be separated from the registration all together? Likewise registration is useful both the get the address of the team we will be shipping goodies to, and to somehow know about the events worldwide, so visitors can easily figure out if there anything around the corner (and eventually what's happening). So either way please let us know how you would like this to happen and we'll try to improve based on your feedback. Thanks a lot. Fred

June 26, 2013

http://*.softwarefreedomday.org/ localization issues

by Ivan Shmakov

Visiting the SFD Web sites recently, I've spotted a few localization issues, with at least one that may end up being particularly confusing to the newcomers. The case of the lost page The first and foremost is that with languages other than English (en) configured as preferred in the browser settings, the Wiki's “front page” (http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/) may unexpectedly fail to deliver any useful information on the current event. A quick test reveals that at least the following pages are served under different settings: es PáginaInicial in मुखपृष्ठ ja フロントページ ru ГлавнаяСтраница Of them, the Spanish (es) and Hindi (in) pages seem to be outdated (showing the information on the 2012 event), while the Japanese (ja) and Russian (ru) pages seem to contain only the MoinMoin templates. (This is in contrast to the PageD'Accueil page for ‘fr’, which appears to be in a usable state.) My suggestion would be to show the English ‘FrontPage’ at http://wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/ for a browser-configured language until (and unless) the respective “localized” page is brought into existent and up-to-date state. (And how does the community contribute, BTW?) Also to note is that the engine seems to ignore the order of the preferred languages (as configured via the browser settings), which also may be quite confusing. But I'm unsure on that. Texts and templates This issue is simple, yet (IIRC) long-standing. The truth is: irrespective of the ability to change the preferred language, one wouldn't consider http://sf-day.org/ to be very informative to anyone but an English speaker, as the pages there are virtually unlocalized. Which makes me wonder if some community effort is anticipated there as well? And, the same question arises on the matter of localization of the Wiki templates, such as CityEnTemplate and TeamEnTemplate. Curiously, how does one submit suggested localizations for these? (I guess there should be a Wiki page explaining this?) The mailing lists Well, I'm unsure if GNU Mailman supports i18n and l10n well, but my guess is that at least the descriptions for the non-English lists (as shown on http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo) may safely be translated into the respective expected languages of communication. For instance, the description for planning-ru@ may look like: “[Russian] Обсуждения подготовки Дня на русском языке”. I believe that this change may make this list of lists a tiny bit more accessible to those having trouble with English. (Obviously, having the GNU Mailman interface localized would contribute much more to the accessibility, but changing only the description may end up being much easier than that.) -- FSF associate member #7257

June 24, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] Artworks!

by Pockey Lam

Hi Bersam, Please find the 2013 artworks at wiki.softwarefreedomday.org/Artwork and feel free to localize and use them as you wish! Cheers, Pockey On 06/24/2013 08:05 PM, Bersam K wrote: > Hi everybody! > > I'm consider we're using last year artworks for this year again? or > There's some plans to make new artworks for 2013 SFD!? > > -- > And Still Nobody Cares > *contact me:* > Gmail : Bersam.k [at] gmail > Weblog : http://www.bersam.org > GPG Key : EAC5A576 > <http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xEAC5A576> (Sign > my key) > > > _______________________________________________ > SFD-discuss mailing list > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss

June 24, 2013

Artworks!

by Bersam K

Hi everybody! I'm consider we're using last year artworks for this year again? or There's some plans to make new artworks for 2013 SFD!? -- And Still Nobody Cares *contact me:* <https://forms.hush.com/bersam> Gmail : Bersam.k [at] gmail Weblog : http://www.bersam.org GPG Key : EAC5A576<http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xEAC5A576>(Sign my key)

June 24, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] ayuda en la creación del wiki de mi pais

by Carlos L. González S.

Saludos... la respuesta correcta es sfd si como lo lees es lo mismo que colocaste tu pero solo las iniciales osea sfd REGARDS!!! El 19 de junio de 2013 17:58, Bigwell Arias <bigwell(a)gmail.com> escribió: > Hola a todos, podria alguien ayudarme con la respuesta de la pregunta: What > does everyone celebrate on the third Saturday of September? > mi respuesta es Software Freedom Day y me da un error y no crea mi perfil > de usuario para poder crear la wiki de mi pais! > > Gracias1 > > -- > Lic. Claudio Rafael Arias > > > _______________________________________________ > SFD-discuss mailing list > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss > > -- *Carlos L. González S.* *Consultor IT FreeLance*

June 20, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] ayuda en la creación del wiki de mi pais

by Ingeniero Forigua

Leyendo las recomendaciones en otro hilo intenta con otros navegadores. A la próxima pregunta en ingles. He ask about a problem with wiki page -- ========= Miembro Bogota Mesh ========== Dice el manifiesto: Utilizar Software Libre para la implementación de los diferentes componentes de la red. Cuando no existan alternativas libres, se promoverá su desarrollo.

June 20, 2013

ayuda en la creación del wiki de mi pais

by Bigwell Arias

Hola a todos, podria alguien ayudarme con la respuesta de la pregunta: What does everyone celebrate on the third Saturday of September? mi respuesta es Software Freedom Day y me da un error y no crea mi perfil de usuario para poder crear la wiki de mi pais! Gracias1 -- Lic. Claudio Rafael Arias

June 20, 2013