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Re: [SFD-discuss] OpenDisc is avaiable ?

by Severus

On 09/05/2013 04:26 AM, Ingeniero Forigua wrote: > I recomend CDLibre > > http://www.cdlibre.org/descargar/index.html > > regards > > Thank you very much, but I didn't see English on this site :( -- Be different and always different

Sept. 5, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] .iso to USB was Re: OpenDisc is avaiable ?

by Julian H. Stacey

> From: Frederic Muller - DFF <fred(a)digitalfreedomfoundation.org> > On 09/04/2013 07:25 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: > >> Likewise we have asked Canonical (somewhat involved in the Freedom > >> Toaster) > > I didnt know what that was so for others: > > http://www.freedomtoaster.org > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Toaster > > > >> whether they were aware of a USB burning Kiosk able to burn ISO > >> files and add other files to the same USB drive. While we just started > >> the discussion if someone knows anything or has any idea please share > >> with us. > > Too big a topic to solve in time for SFD this year. > > One would need to define aims tighter, eg define to what format, > > & discard the "and add other files to the same USB drive: > > as it drags in a mass of consequential questions: > > > > What do you want the OS of the copier to be ? (A divisive question > > in itself ;-) Linux ? BSD ? Other ? Which version ? > Big topic I agree, which will probably raise a lot of debates ;-). While > I don't have any preferred choice I don't want an OS that gets outdated > in no time. And of course it has to be Free Software. Still vague, but > let's say that it won't be Fedora as the one-year support is too short. > A Ubuntu LTS eventually, Debian or maybe you have some suggestion and > better knowledge (that shouldn't be difficult) on the BSD side. A few FreeBSD release have extended lifetimes, inc. the last minor release upgrade number at the end of a previous major release number series, eg , 8.4 estimated end of life: June 30, 2015, although 9.1 estimated end of life earlier: December 31, 2014 http://www.freebsd.org/security/security.html#sup > > > But necessary > > as one gets heavily into assumptions of content & what it should > > boot, & which scripts to use for lots of .iso to usb methods, & > > the commands those scripts will call, use some of the (I presume) > > most non standard differential per Unix tools. > > > > eg try http://ixquick.com with > > freebsd .iso to usb > > for a hint of various methods. > > I use FreeBSD's mdconfig command to manually manipulate my .iso over to USB > > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=mdconfig&sektion=8 > > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/disks-virtual.html#idp88166064 > > > > What target media format ? > > - Retain [or re-assert ?] (as typical from shop) USB with MBR > > for 4 OS, 1st slice using all blocks. > > - Or use as raw USB stick for 1 Bootable OS ? > > - What sort of boot ? (Linux nobbles disks' boot in ways BSD > > doesnt like) Stick to just MBR best, but note newer FreeBSD > > now likes Geom stuff, MS has aso long nobled the boot > > too. (Even CDROM .iso had 2 ways to boot). Boot opens a > > can of worms. > I'm not enough knowledgeable to make a mindful decision. I didn't think > we could have more than 1 thing booting from the USB but if we can why not? Yes :-). The USB stick that lives on my key ring (so if flat burns down I still have data, has: fdisk /dev/da1 The data for partition 1 is: sysid 11 (0x0b),(DOS or Windows 95 with 32 bit FAT) start 63, size 2056257 (1004 Meg), flag 0 The data for partition 2 is: sysid 165 (0xa5),(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 2056320, size 7984305 (3898 Meg), flag 80 (active) The data for partition 3 is: sysid 165 (0xa5),(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 10040625, size 6201090 (3027 Meg), flag 0 The data for partition 4 is: sysid 165 (0xa5),(FreeBSD/NetBSD/386BSD) start 16241715, size 2961 (1 Meg), flag 0 It auto mounts as /devusb/delock.dos on /media/delock.dos (msdosfs, local) /devusb/delock.bde on /media/delock.ufs (ufs, local, noatime, soft-updates) /devusb/delock.os on /media/delock.os (ufs, local, noatime, read-only) /devusb/delock.end on /media/delock.end (ufs, local, noatime) /devusb/delock.bde@ -> /dev/da1s3.bde /devusb/delock.dos@ -> /dev/da1s1 /devusb/delock.end@ -> /dev/da1s4a /devusb/delock.os@ -> /dev/da1s2a done by http://www.berklix.com/~jhs/src/bsd/fixes/FreeBSD/src/jhs/etc/devd/jhs.conf P1 is 1G of DOS scratch space for import export when visiting MS people P2 is 4G encrypted BSD FFS personal data P3 is 3G FreeBSD Bootable OS inc lots of extra rescue stuff I added. I have used stick to boot a PC, one could then use it to copy to another stick. Old laptops dont boot off USB though. & sometimes there can be an issue with device numbering. Then there's issues like "will your USB Unix X11 config recognise my X11 hardware?" (If an X11 is wanted) Those X11 issues have probably been adressed by http://knoppix.de (a bootable Linux CD) Maybe I should later put up my USB image for people to try, (a sanitised version without my personal stuff :-) > > FS on USB ? FAT32, Linux Ext23/ BSD-FFS NTFS, or several slices ? > > (you wrote you want to "add other files") > The "add other files" was in the case of a typical non-free OS users > interested to get a Free OS and some applications for his non-free OS. > So it'll have something he can boot from P3 3G FreeBSD in my case > and also a place where it will > be able to retrieve those applications that do not require booting from. P1 1G DOS FAT32 in my case > > > I've made my own bootable FreeBSD stick, & grafted on other stuff, > > It's also easy with FreeBSD to write a bunch of cd9660 .iso files > > to a fat32 USB stick, then use the mdconfig command to convert > > each .iso to a node, & then mount each cdrom .iso image simultaneously. > > I presume its just as easy on Linux, with probably different commands. > Yes and no. Depending on the ISO you can or cannot dd, you can or cannot > easily put on a USB disk. So while I was thinking to have something > generic and each team download the OSes of their choice we will hit a > limit there. Likewise reading ext4 from Windows (for "add other files") > will be a tricky thing obviously requiring to use FAT32, or so I think. My brother who uses MS wrote me recently: "I have also downloaded a free utility for Windows that enables read/write to an Ext 3 drive." No idea what it was or if open src or not. > > But ... > > The average end user recipient of such a stick probably will not > > have the skills to easily deal with it. A lot of recipients of > > cdroms couldn't do much more than insert & push reset ;-) If we > > make it too complex it wont be useful to more than a small minority > > who could do it all on a laptop with a few friends anyway using OS > > & other options of mutual choice, (& then they'll also be there to > > answer phone in same city when someone calls "Er, what was content > > order of that unique collection of extras you gave me, how do I > > extract install boot"). > > > > Distributing pictures or source archives, it's easy to write > > them as files on a FAT32 USB stick, But if we want to also deliver > > bootable op systems etc, we're best confining that to one per stick, > > with nothing else on stick. > Yes, I totally hear you here. Well we need a "nice" UI to select what to > put on the stick, probably with some exclusive choices but still > configurable by the SFD team and then maybe a roadmap for the "upcoming > features". > > > > No problem using multiple stick anyway, cos people can re-use them, > > & force them to buy their own stick at shop round the corner ! > > > > If we give out sticks with free s/w, people will just erase the > > software & keep the stick anyway. > I think so as well. Besides I think everyone has a USB stick at home and > it's just a matter of letting them know that they should bring it > around. On the organizers side it's just one PC with USB port(s)... > manageable. As I said before giving away USB sticks unless someone wants > to get rid of them is just to costly to be worth it (the same amount of > money will probably do much better things "elsewhere"). Yes, once I manned a free software stand & got asked by kids "what have you got that's free ?" & they didnt mean software but anything - Locusts ! > > > > Cheers, > > Julian > So was that a bit clearer? Yup :-) > Thanks for the follow up, really appreciate. :-) > Fred Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, like a play script. Indent old text with "> ". Send plain text. No quoted-printable, HTML, base64, multipart/alternative.

Sept. 4, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] OpenDisc is avaiable ?

by Ingeniero Forigua

I recomend CDLibre http://www.cdlibre.org/descargar/index.html regards 2013/9/4 Severus <huynhok.uit(a)vnoss.org> > On 09/04/2013 03:40 PM, Frederic Muller - DFF wrote: > > On 09/04/2013 04:38 PM, Severus wrote: > >> I will discuss this idea with my team > >> > >> Kind regards, > >> Severus > > Likewise we have asked Canonical (somewhat involved in the Freedom > > Toaster) whether they were aware of a USB burning Kiosk able to burn ISO > > files and add other files to the same USB drive. While we just started > > the discussion if someone knows anything or has any idea please share > > with us. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Fred > > I forward email to my team, and share any idea we have with other. > > We can customize anything without reburning, I think it's great idea but > we must have sponsor for fee of usb :-) > > Kind regards, > Severus > > > > -- > Be different and always different > > > > _______________________________________________ > SFD-discuss mailing list > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss > > -- ========= Miembro Bogota Mesh ========== Dice el manifiesto: Utilizar Software Libre para la implementación de los diferentes componentes de la red. Cuando no existan alternativas libres, se promoverá su desarrollo.

Sept. 4, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] .iso to USB was Re: OpenDisc is avaiable ?

by Frederic Muller - DFF

On 09/04/2013 07:25 PM, Julian H. Stacey wrote: >> Likewise we have asked Canonical (somewhat involved in the Freedom >> Toaster) > I didnt know what that was so for others: > http://www.freedomtoaster.org > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Toaster > >> whether they were aware of a USB burning Kiosk able to burn ISO >> files and add other files to the same USB drive. While we just started >> the discussion if someone knows anything or has any idea please share >> with us. > Too big a topic to solve in time for SFD this year. > One would need to define aims tighter, eg define to what format, > & discard the "and add other files to the same USB drive: > as it drags in a mass of consequential questions: > > What do you want the OS of the copier to be ? (A divisive question > in itself ;-) Linux ? BSD ? Other ? Which version ? Big topic I agree, which will probably raise a lot of debates ;-). While I don't have any preferred choice I don't want an OS that gets outdated in no time. And of course it has to be Free Software. Still vague, but let's say that it won't be Fedora as the one-year support is too short. A Ubuntu LTS eventually, Debian or maybe you have some suggestion and better knowledge (that shouldn't be difficult) on the BSD side. > But necessary > as one gets heavily into assumptions of content & what it should > boot, & which scripts to use for lots of .iso to usb methods, & > the commands those scripts will call, use some of the (I presume) > most non standard differential per Unix tools. > > eg try http://ixquick.com with > freebsd .iso to usb > for a hint of various methods. > I use FreeBSD's mdconfig command to manually manipulate my .iso over to USB > http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=mdconfig&sektion=8 > http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/disks-virtual.html#idp88166064 > > What target media format ? > - Retain [or re-assert ?] (as typical from shop) USB with MBR > for 4 OS, 1st slice using all blocks. > - Or use as raw USB stick for 1 Bootable OS ? > - What sort of boot ? (Linux nobbles disks' boot in ways BSD > doesnt like) Stick to just MBR best, but note newer FreeBSD > now likes Geom stuff, MS has aso long nobled the boot > too. (Even CDROM .iso had 2 ways to boot). Boot opens a > can of worms. I'm not enough knowledgeable to make a mindful decision. I didn't think we could have more than 1 thing booting from the USB but if we can why not? > > FS on USB ? FAT32, Linux Ext23/ BSD-FFS NTFS, or several slices ? > (you wrote you want to "add other files") The "add other files" was in the case of a typical non-free OS users interested to get a Free OS and some applications for his non-free OS. So it'll have something he can boot from and also a place where it will be able to retrieve those applications that do not require booting from. > I've made my own bootable FreeBSD stick, & grafted on other stuff, > It's also easy with FreeBSD to write a bunch of cd9660 .iso files > to a fat32 USB stick, then use the mdconfig command to convert > each .iso to a node, & then mount each cdrom .iso image simultaneously. > I presume its just as easy on Linux, with probably different commands. Yes and no. Depending on the ISO you can or cannot dd, you can or cannot easily put on a USB disk. So while I was thinking to have something generic and each team download the OSes of their choice we will hit a limit there. Likewise reading ext4 from Windows (for "add other files") will be a tricky thing obviously requiring to use FAT32, or so I think. > > But ... > The average end user recipient of such a stick probably will not > have the skills to easily deal with it. A lot of recipients of > cdroms couldn't do much more than insert & push reset ;-) If we > make it too complex it wont be useful to more than a small minority > who could do it all on a laptop with a few friends anyway using OS > & other options of mutual choice, (& then they'll also be there to > answer phone in same city when someone calls "Er, what was content > order of that unique collection of extras you gave me, how do I > extract install boot"). > > Distributing pictures or source archives, it's easy to write > them as files on a FAT32 USB stick, But if we want to also deliver > bootable op systems etc, we're best confining that to one per stick, > with nothing else on stick. Yes, I totally hear you here. Well we need a "nice" UI to select what to put on the stick, probably with some exclusive choices but still configurable by the SFD team and then maybe a roadmap for the "upcoming features". > > No problem using multiple stick anyway, cos people can re-use them, > & force them to buy their own stick at shop round the corner ! > > If we give out sticks with free s/w, people will just erase the > software & keep the stick anyway. I think so as well. Besides I think everyone has a USB stick at home and it's just a matter of letting them know that they should bring it around. On the organizers side it's just one PC with USB port(s)... manageable. As I said before giving away USB sticks unless someone wants to get rid of them is just to costly to be worth it (the same amount of money will probably do much better things "elsewhere"). > > Cheers, > Julian So was that a bit clearer? Thanks for the follow up, really appreciate. Fred

Sept. 4, 2013

.iso to USB was Re: OpenDisc is avaiable ?

by Julian H. Stacey

> Likewise we have asked Canonical (somewhat involved in the Freedom > Toaster) I didnt know what that was so for others: http://www.freedomtoaster.org https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_Toaster > whether they were aware of a USB burning Kiosk able to burn ISO > files and add other files to the same USB drive. While we just started > the discussion if someone knows anything or has any idea please share > with us. Too big a topic to solve in time for SFD this year. One would need to define aims tighter, eg define to what format, & discard the "and add other files to the same USB drive: as it drags in a mass of consequential questions: What do you want the OS of the copier to be ? (A divisive question in itself ;-) Linux ? BSD ? Other ? Which version ? But necessary as one gets heavily into assumptions of content & what it should boot, & which scripts to use for lots of .iso to usb methods, & the commands those scripts will call, use some of the (I presume) most non standard differential per Unix tools. eg try http://ixquick.com with freebsd .iso to usb for a hint of various methods. I use FreeBSD's mdconfig command to manually manipulate my .iso over to USB http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?query=mdconfig&sektion=8 http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/disks-virtual.html#idp88166064 What target media format ? - Retain [or re-assert ?] (as typical from shop) USB with MBR for 4 OS, 1st slice using all blocks. - Or use as raw USB stick for 1 Bootable OS ? - What sort of boot ? (Linux nobbles disks' boot in ways BSD doesnt like) Stick to just MBR best, but note newer FreeBSD now likes Geom stuff, MS has aso long nobled the boot too. (Even CDROM .iso had 2 ways to boot). Boot opens a can of worms. FS on USB ? FAT32, Linux Ext23/ BSD-FFS NTFS, or several slices ? (you wrote you want to "add other files") I've made my own bootable FreeBSD stick, & grafted on other stuff, It's also easy with FreeBSD to write a bunch of cd9660 .iso files to a fat32 USB stick, then use the mdconfig command to convert each .iso to a node, & then mount each cdrom .iso image simultaneously. I presume its just as easy on Linux, with probably different commands. But ... The average end user recipient of such a stick probably will not have the skills to easily deal with it. A lot of recipients of cdroms couldn't do much more than insert & push reset ;-) If we make it too complex it wont be useful to more than a small minority who could do it all on a laptop with a few friends anyway using OS & other options of mutual choice, (& then they'll also be there to answer phone in same city when someone calls "Er, what was content order of that unique collection of extras you gave me, how do I extract install boot"). Distributing pictures or source archives, it's easy to write them as files on a FAT32 USB stick, But if we want to also deliver bootable op systems etc, we're best confining that to one per stick, with nothing else on stick. No problem using multiple stick anyway, cos people can re-use them, & force them to buy their own stick at shop round the corner ! If we give out sticks with free s/w, people will just erase the software & keep the stick anyway. Cheers, Julian -- Julian Stacey, BSD Unix Linux C Sys Eng Consultant, Munich http://berklix.com Reply below not above, like a play script. Indent old text with "> ". Send plain text. No quoted-printable, HTML, base64, multipart/alternative.

Sept. 4, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] OpenDisc is avaiable ?

by Severus

On 09/04/2013 03:40 PM, Frederic Muller - DFF wrote: > On 09/04/2013 04:38 PM, Severus wrote: >> I will discuss this idea with my team >> >> Kind regards, >> Severus > Likewise we have asked Canonical (somewhat involved in the Freedom > Toaster) whether they were aware of a USB burning Kiosk able to burn ISO > files and add other files to the same USB drive. While we just started > the discussion if someone knows anything or has any idea please share > with us. > > Thanks. > > Fred I forward email to my team, and share any idea we have with other. We can customize anything without reburning, I think it's great idea but we must have sponsor for fee of usb :-) Kind regards, Severus -- Be different and always different

Sept. 4, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] OpenDisc is avaiable ?

by Frederic Muller - DFF

On 09/04/2013 04:38 PM, Severus wrote: > I will discuss this idea with my team > > Kind regards, > Severus Likewise we have asked Canonical (somewhat involved in the Freedom Toaster) whether they were aware of a USB burning Kiosk able to burn ISO files and add other files to the same USB drive. While we just started the discussion if someone knows anything or has any idea please share with us. Thanks. Fred

Sept. 4, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] OpenDisc is avaiable ?

by Severus

On 09/04/2013 12:15 PM, Frederic Muller - DFF wrote: > Hi again! > > Just received a prompt confirmation that the OpenDisc will release their > 2013 edition within the next 2 days. We also exchange ideas on the > status of CD/DVD media disks and what would be the "obvious" evolution > for such a project. > > Hope that satisfies your curiosity ;-) > Thank Frederic so much, I will discuss this idea with my team Kind regards, Severus -- Be different and always different

Sept. 4, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] OpenDisc is avaiable ?

by Frederic Muller - DFF

Hi again! Just received a prompt confirmation that the OpenDisc will release their 2013 edition within the next 2 days. We also exchange ideas on the status of CD/DVD media disks and what would be the "obvious" evolution for such a project. Hope that satisfies your curiosity ;-) Thanks. Fred On 09/04/2013 12:02 AM, Severus wrote: > Hi all ! > > We're going to celebrate SFD on 21/9, but I found that opendisc's for > 2012 SFD. > > When will we have opendisc for this year ? We have 18 days before SFD's > held. > > Kind regards, > Severus > > > > _______________________________________________ > SFD-discuss mailing list > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss

Sept. 4, 2013

Re: [SFD-discuss] OpenDisc is avaiable ?

by Frederic Muller - DFF

On 09/04/2013 12:02 AM, Severus wrote: > Hi all ! > > We're going to celebrate SFD on 21/9, but I found that opendisc's for > 2012 SFD. > > When will we have opendisc for this year ? We have 18 days before SFD's > held. > > Kind regards, > Severus Hi! Just an official response to this message as we should have made an announcement I guess. We feel that CD/DVD are devices from the past, most computers you buy nowadays are shipped without any CD/DVD drives and we were sending those to very few who actually couldn't download the files. In fact with enough preparation you can surely download the same content in your own language (we don't all speak English in our country). I think a better tool for us to work on is a USB burning station where people can come in with their own stick and get the software needed. I actually think there are existing projects doing similar things. Still we can definitely get in touch with the OpenDisc project and see whether we could have an updated version of the disc. Besides shipping 1 or 2 CDs is far from enough for any team and you had to burn the other 99 or 199 or 499 pieces of the puzzle. We've also considered getting a USB disk sponsor. Besides the fact that it's been hard to find new sponsors if someone was willing to do so it would still now really make sense to get 2 to 300 USB sticks of 16GB and shipped them to teams as the same problem of giving them away stands and the money equivalent would be much more valuable to the organization for other gifts or activities. So we'll send an email to OpenDisc... Thanks. Fred

Sept. 4, 2013