March 2007 - SFD-discuss - lists.mailman3.com

Re: [SFD-discuss] RFC: SFI Vision & Objectives

by Rik Tindall

Hi Matt, SFD-discuss, Matt Oquist wrote: > > By stating this in our vision statement we're setting a new standard > for SFI. That doesn't mean we've achieved it already. :) Good response, thanks. Joining the far-distant dots does take time, and agreed that on this defining point we have duly begun.. >>> Objectives: >>> 6: ...to be pragmatic, transparent, and responsible as an >>> organization Adding context, "pragmatic" is a giveaway, laden term here. In that it's Linus's respect-worthy catchphrase. But the great energy of SFD has largely come from visible brand neutrality: BSD is as good as Linux is as good as GNU is as good as Open-Source for Windows, for SFD purposes. This even-handed formula has worked exceedingly well, for SFD team building. Issue is thus taken with "FLOSS" for being an unnecessary agenda to change that. So "pragmatic" in SFD's case is more likely to be to stick with the FOSS (steady project growth) status quo, imho. >>> SoftwareFreedomDay.org : >>> Celebrating Free and Open Source Software [FOSS] in Your Community > >> ..SFD home page - "Software Freedom Day is a global, grassroots >> effort to educate the public about the virtues and availability of >> Free and Open Source Software [FOSS]" >> >> "Decision on policy of terminology to be used: >> * FLOSS" >> >> http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/sfi/minutes/Minutes-07-03-01 >> >> Why start confusing people like this now? Project contributors have been >> signed on to the standing SFD FOSS terminology/deal for three years >> already, so this seems both abrupt and inappropriate as a 'top-down' >> foisted change. It recurs in the SFI minutes, so there is no doubt about >> this muddying of the SFD project aims. > > I think I'm less concerned than you are that "FOSS"->"FLOSS" will > confuse people. Also, this is not a foisted change; we're having this > conversation right now on this public list. That's the point...which > brings us back to "transparency", above. For us here, there's no confusion: they mean the same thing. Changing our language mid-course is better than doing it later, admittedly, if there is sufficient argument supporting it. But otherwise, it is the confusion sold into a predominantly uninformed marketplace that is the real issue. It looked like we'd made up our minds at the start, and positively. That is, if you were establishing as a vendor of cola in the early twentieth century, you might have marketed under the brand name 'pespi' or as 'coke' - but not both. Deciding our most advantageous identity is fundamental to growth; an inability to discern between such similar contents might drive customers off in the direction of 'sprite', for e.g. This is a useful parallel to examine, at least. But the substantive argument is this: "Free" means free/libre in our world anyway, which is a parallel term to "Open Source". Open-source was implicit in Free Software from the start, so is actually a redundant spec to many. But as long as it's useful to work with Open-Source marketing, then it should be kept in balance with Free Software - which is what the FOSS term achieves. There's no need to state Free/Libre if you are adding Open-Source, because that is spurious repetition of the very same meaning. It strikes me that adding /Libre to Free, within FOSS, serves primarily one destructive purpose - to break up the phrase "Free Software". This is categorically both a bad idea and contrary to the more neutral flavour that SFD has assiduously attained. I'm sure there are very many of us who have adopted SFD heartily and specifically because of the clear and prominent sense in which Free Software has meaning within "Software Freedom". We do not wish to see this position undermined. If it seems like I've taken this issue too seriously, let me explain. Our SFD team has grown steadily over the past three years, except for one major glitch encountered last year. And that was due to a Windows-based entrepreneur derailing our process somewhat, in a strong effort to shunt our SFD FOSS marketing tradition onto "FLOSS". This painful experience left such a deep impression that we probably now require SFI's explicit backing of FOSS, in order to continue. > Lastly, we haven't even adopted the vision statement yet, it's still > under discussion (which is what we're doing). And even if we had > adopted it, it wouldn't've been implemented instantly. Thanks, that's reassuring. > So no worries -- is your reason for concern about changing "FOSS" to > "FLOSS" that the target audience of SFD will be confused? I don't Yes, largely. As above. > personally have strong feelings one way or the other about using FOSS > v. FLOSS, but after our discussion at the F2F I am inclined toward > FLOSS, and of course the argument there is that including "Libre" > helps to *avoid* confusing our target audience. Do you disagree? Completely. It's redundant verbiage to 'expand' FOSS to "FLOSS". Only negative outcomes can result from adopting it. Mainly because it adds the job of debating an unnecessary change while we need to be preparing our teams :) But next because there is zero logic to it anyway. Instead, it would be signifying some other force for change. > Regards, > Matt > --------------------------------------------------------- > SoftwareFreedomDay.org : > Celebrating Free and Open Source Software in Your Community > info AT softwarefreedomday.org > http://softwarefreedomday.org/ > > SFD Sponsors: > http://canonical.com > http://ibm.com > > Software Freedom Day is a project of Software Freedom International. > Software Freedom International is a registered corporation in the state of New > Hampshire, USA. > _______________________________________________ > SFD-discuss mailing list > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss Cheers & hth, Rik Tindall pp SFD Team Christchurch, Aotearoa-NZ

March 27, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] RFC: SFI Vision & Objectives

by Rik Tindall

Hi Matt, SFD-discuss, Matt Oquist wrote: > > By stating this in our vision statement we're setting a new standard > for SFI. That doesn't mean we've achieved it already. :) Good response, thanks. Joining the far-distant dots does take time, and agreed that on this defining point we have duly begun. >>> Objectives: >>> 6: ...to be pragmatic, transparent, and responsible as an >>> organization Adding context, "pragmatic" is a giveaway, laden term here. In that it's Linus's respect-worthy catchphrase. But the great energy of SFD has largely come from visible brand neutrality: BSD is as good as Linux is as good as GNU is as good as Open-Source for Windows, for SFD purposes. This even-handed formula has worked exceedingly well, for SFD team building. Issue is thus taken with "FLOSS" for being an unnecessary agenda to change that. So "pragmatic" in SFD's case is more likely to be to stick with the FOSS (steady project growth) status quo, imho. >>> SoftwareFreedomDay.org : >>> Celebrating Free and Open Source Software [FOSS] in Your Community > >> ..SFD home page - "Software Freedom Day is a global, grassroots >> effort to educate the public about the virtues and availability of >> Free and Open Source Software [FOSS]" >> >> "Decision on policy of terminology to be used: >> * FLOSS" >> >> http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/sfi/minutes/Minutes-07-03-01 >> >> Why start confusing people like this now? Project contributors have been >> signed on to the standing SFD FOSS terminology/deal for three years >> already, so this seems both abrupt and inappropriate as a 'top-down' >> foisted change. It recurs in the SFI minutes, so there is no doubt about >> this muddying of the SFD project aims. > > I think I'm less concerned than you are that "FOSS"->"FLOSS" will > confuse people. Also, this is not a foisted change; we're having this > conversation right now on this public list. That's the point...which > brings us back to "transparency", above. For us here, there's no confusion: they mean the same thing. Changing our language mid-course is better than doing it later, admittedly, if there is sufficient argument supporting it. But otherwise, it is the confusion sold into a predominantly uninformed marketplace that is the real issue. It looked like we'd made up our minds at the start, and positively. That is, if you were establishing as a vendor of cola in the early twentieth century, you might have marketed under the brand name 'pespi' or as 'coke' - but not both. Deciding our most advantageous identity is fundamental to growth; an inability to discern between such similar contents might drive customers off in the direction of 'sprite', for e.g. This is a useful parallel to examine, at least. But the substantive argument is this: "Free" means free/libre in our world anyway, which is a parallel term to "Open Source". Open-source was implicit in Free Software from the start, so is actually a redundant spec to many. But as long as it's useful to work with Open-Source marketing, then it should be kept in balance with Free Software - which is what the FOSS term achieves. There's no need to state Free/Libre if you are adding Open-Source, because that is spurious repetition of the very same meaning. It strikes me that adding /Libre to Free, within FOSS, serves primarily one destructive purpose - to break up the phrase "Free Software". This is categorically both a bad idea and contrary to the more neutral flavour that SFD has assiduously attained. I'm sure there are very many of us who have adopted SFD heartily and specifically because of the clear and prominent sense in which Free Software has meaning within "Software Freedom". We do not wish to see this position undermined. If it seems like I've taken this issue too seriously, let me explain. Our SFD team has grown steadily over the past three years, except for one major glitch encountered last year. And that was due to a Windows-based entrepreneur derailing our process somewhat, in a strong effort to shunt our SFD FOSS marketing tradition onto "FLOSS". This painful experience left such a deep impression that we probably now require SFI's explicit backing of FOSS, in order to continue. > Lastly, we haven't even adopted the vision statement yet, it's still > under discussion (which is what we're doing). And even if we had > adopted it, it wouldn't've been implemented instantly. Thanks, that's reassuring. > So no worries -- is your reason for concern about changing "FOSS" to > "FLOSS" that the target audience of SFD will be confused? I don't Yes, largely. As above. > personally have strong feelings one way or the other about using FOSS > v. FLOSS, but after our discussion at the F2F I am inclined toward > FLOSS, and of course the argument there is that including "Libre" > helps to *avoid* confusing our target audience. Do you disagree? Completely. It's redundant verbiage to 'expand' FOSS to "FLOSS". Only negative outcomes can result from adopting it. Mainly because it adds the job of debating an unnecessary change while we need to be preparing our teams :) But next because there is zero logic to it anyway. Instead, it would be signifying some other force for change. > Regards, > Matt > --------------------------------------------------------- > SoftwareFreedomDay.org : > Celebrating Free and Open Source Software in Your Community > info AT softwarefreedomday.org > http://softwarefreedomday.org/ > > SFD Sponsors: > http://canonical.com > http://ibm.com > > Software Freedom Day is a project of Software Freedom International. > Software Freedom International is a registered corporation in the state of New > Hampshire, USA. > _______________________________________________ > SFD-discuss mailing list > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss Cheers & hth, Rik Tindall pp SFD Team Christchurch, Aotearoa-NZ

March 27, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] RFC: SFI Vision & Objectives

by Matt Oquist

Hi Rik, > There is a _big_ problem here with SFI process 'transparency': Yes; we're working on that. By stating this in our vision statement we're setting a new standard for SFI. That doesn't mean we've achieved it already. :) > >Objectives: > > 6: ...to be pragmatic, transparent, and responsible as an > > organization > >--------------------------------------------------------- > >SoftwareFreedomDay.org : > > Celebrating Free and Open Source Software [FOSS] in Your Community > While the overall statement drift has been positive, the substance is > seemingly different. Like, please reconcile your footer above, which > precisely echoes the long-standing SFD home page - "Software Freedom Day > is a global, grassroots effort to educate the public about the virtues > and availability of Free and Open Source Software [FOSS]" - with this: > > "Decision on policy of terminology to be used: > * FLOSS" > > http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/sfi/minutes/Minutes-07-03-01 > > Why start confusing people like this now? Project contributors have been > signed on to the standing SFD FOSS terminology/deal for three years > already, so this seems both abrupt and inappropriate as a 'top-down' > foisted change. It recurs in the SFI minutes, so there is no doubt about > this muddying of the SFD project aims. I think I'm less concerned than you are that "FOSS"->"FLOSS" will confuse people. Also, this is not a foisted change; we're having this conversation right now on this public list. That's the point...which brings us back to "transparency", above. Lastly, we haven't even adopted the vision statement yet, it's still under discussion (which is what we're doing). And even if we had adopted it, it wouldn't've been implemented instantly. So no worries -- is your reason for concern about changing "FOSS" to "FLOSS" that the target audience of SFD will be confused? I don't personally have strong feelings one way or the other about using FOSS v. FLOSS, but after our discussion at the F2F I am inclined toward FLOSS, and of course the argument there is that including "Libre" helps to *avoid* confusing our target audience. Do you disagree? Regards, Matt -- --------------------------------------------------------- SoftwareFreedomDay.org : Celebrating Free and Open Source Software in Your Community info AT softwarefreedomday.org http://softwarefreedomday.org/ SFD Sponsors: http://canonical.com http://ibm.com Software Freedom Day is a project of Software Freedom International. Software Freedom International is a registered corporation in the state of New Hampshire, USA.

March 26, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] RFC: SFI Vision & Objectives

by Rik Tindall

Thanks Matt, Good principles. But the more developed a project, the more extra complications?.. There is a _big_ problem here with SFI process 'transparency': Matt Oquist wrote: > > Software Freedom International is planning to adopt the following > vision and objective statements within the next two weeks, and we > would love to hear your comments.. <snips> > Vision: "Our vision is to empower all people to freely connect, create and share in a digital world that is participatory, transparent, and sustainable." > > Objectives: > 6: ...to be pragmatic, transparent, and responsible as an organization > --------------------------------------------------------- > SoftwareFreedomDay.org : > Celebrating Free and Open Source Software [FOSS] in Your Community While the overall statement drift has been positive, the substance is seemingly different. Like, please reconcile your footer above, which precisely echoes the long-standing SFD home page - "Software Freedom Day is a global, grassroots effort to educate the public about the virtues and availability of Free and Open Source Software [FOSS]" - with this: "Decision on policy of terminology to be used: * FLOSS" http://www.softwarefreedomday.org/sfi/minutes/Minutes-07-03-01 Why start confusing people like this now? Project contributors have been signed on to the standing SFD FOSS terminology/deal for three years already, so this seems both abrupt and inappropriate as a 'top-down' foisted change. It recurs in the SFI minutes, so there is no doubt about this muddying of the SFD project aims. Please let us know how we can maintain the "FOSS" status quo, for bigger and brighter SFDs :) Regards and thanks again, Rik Tindall pp Team Christchurch, Aotearoa-NZ

March 26, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Alternative SoC: Code to change the World

by Russell John

Anyone attending the summit? Hopefully I'll be there representing Bangladesh. - Russell On 3/18/07, Luis Gustavo Lira <dr_complexity(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Dear Friends, > > Cultura Libre will launch a new initiative " > Alternative SoC: Code to change the World" > > Where: The 2007 iCommons Summit: Dubrovnik, Croatia. > > When: 15-17 June > > http://wiki.icommons.org/index.php/Launches > > > > __________________________________________________ > Correo Yahoo! > Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! > Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > SFD-discuss mailing list > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss >

March 18, 2007

Alternative SoC: Code to change the World

by Luis Gustavo Lira

Dear Friends, Cultura Libre will launch a new initiative " Alternative SoC: Code to change the World" Where: The 2007 iCommons Summit: Dubrovnik, Croatia. When: 15-17 June http://wiki.icommons.org/index.php/Launches __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/

March 18, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Google Debate - long email ! sorry

by Janet Hawtin

imho Google are contributing to the community. It is their business what they would like to support. Frequently businesses support projects which are useful to their own organisations. Google do contribute more broadly than that. Instead of critiquing Google we could be saying that this is a great program and encouraging other partners to do a Summer/Winter etc of code. Gifthorse > mouth

March 16, 2007

Re: [SFD-discuss] Google Debate

by Janet Hawtin

What is the main concern. I really dont need to join another list =) On 3/16/07, Luis Gustavo Lira <dr_complexity(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > Dear friends > > There are a hot debate about Google Summer of Code. > > Please check this link > > http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-discuss > > > __________________________________________________ > Correo Yahoo! > Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! > Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ > > _______________________________________________ > SFD-discuss mailing list > SFD-discuss(a)sf-day.org > http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss >

March 16, 2007

Google Debate - long email ! sorry

by Luis Gustavo Lira

http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-discuss We are very disappointing with the list of accepted organizations. It was quite a chock because many organizations with social projects like CUWiN or IFOSSF have not selected. We think google need to draw attention to foss projects whick really makes a difference to people's live. Support foss innovations are very important but have we thought about its social impacts. What about the issues of provide low cost access to telecomunications (CUWiN), or applications to rural telecenters (IFOSSF), or applications to deliver microfinancial services to poor families (Cultura Libre). We would encourage developers to look for solutions with a social impact and make FOSS technologies much more meaningful to the people who can truly benefit from it. Google is one of the most innovative organizations in the world but they dont like to take the risk and support risky new projects but with a strong social benefit. Innovation is a risky business but social innovation is a extremely risky business. I would like to ask to google's CEO about this. The social foss community need a Social SoC program. ---------------------------------------------- Dear Leslie, Yes you are right, we know google has selected some social projects: Creative Commons, Drupal, Moodle, CPSR, Ubuntu, EFF, Wikimedia, Lurie Center, etc But 8-10 projects over 130??? its a small rate. We have some suggestions: - Setup a minimun (20%) to support social foss projects. - More opportunities for organizations and developers from third world. 99 % of selected organizations are based in first world countries! and number of selected students from the third world is always very small. We (who are living in third world) need a local critical mass of organizations and high skilled developers. - Setup a minimun (20%) to support student developers from the third world. One of the great innovations in US education system are the programs to support minorities. Today hispanics, blacks and american natives have more opportunities to access to high education. How many google's employees have been awarded with that special felloships when they was at university??? - Sensibility program for google's administrators. Learn from the field. Meet with organization like Grameen Bank, Ashoka, MSF and others and ask what they need and how a program like Summer of Code could help to solve social/enviromental/health problems. Google has the power to change the world. Take the challenge ! -------------------------------------- On 15 mar, 23:33, "Chris DiBona" <cdib...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > The google open source programs office has a variety of programs, but we do > not work on social justice, poverty abatement or microlending. Google.org, > which is substantially funded, concentrates on these things. Our group > worries about open source, open data, open protocols and apis. These are > the areas in which we innovate. The others can benefit from our work through > their use of open source software. Right, we need open sources applications for microfinancial organizations, open source for dealing with disaster management (SAHANA project is an example), open source to provide low cost wireless internet (CUWiN), open source to rural telecenters (IFOSSF). Google thinks that there is not possible develop an open source application to social justice??? what about an application based on MySQL, Google Map API and PHP to develop a web system for tracking information about missing and kidnapped kids. What about an application based on wxWidgets to develop GUIs that illiterate people can use. What about an application based on blind linux (blinux) to allow blind students to learn linux. This are only some social foss ideas and you are right they are applications and not new technology, but an application is less important? There are many challenges. Google thinks that is not posible to develop a new protocol to social justice? What about a new http protocol or a new IP (called IPv7 or IP2Freedom) to deploys networks that governments cant block, imagine the impact to thousand of social activists if they could speak with censure. ----------------------------------------------------- Dear Chris Sorry if I sound rude, this is not my intention, but English is not my first language. We know that google support projects like OLPC and Meraki, my group here in Peru is working to promote OLPC project in Peru. Check our web page http://olpc.culturalibre.info/ And Meraki is a great solution, a low cost device and very usefull to provide low cost wireless communications, we are using meraki mini in our project "community microtelcos" here in Peru. Our project was selected by Telefonica and the project will be used in very remote and insolate zones in Peru and Brazil. http://wiki.freeculture.org/Wirelessperu > I'd suggest you go and do some of these projects, help them code their > software and then come back and tell us we're not doing enough. Before > intimating that we don't have the vision or depth to understand these issues > around open source when in fact we've been funding them and helping release > software into these realms for some time. We ( Cultura Libre) have more of ten years working with software and non-software projects here in Peru, and we have been awarded many prizes from our social projects. Coca Cola, Motorola, Telefonica, Software Freedom International and many other international corporations and organization are selected and awarded our initiatives. Summer of Code program is a innovative program. However there are many things to improve. There is a focus on abstract innovations but nothing about their impacts. Most selected organization and students are based in first world countries. The open source movement is a global movement. Google Jam has a regional focus, Code Jam Latin America and Code Jam Europe are some examples. Google has been selected high skilled students from around the world to work with google at Montain View, NY or London, we know about many students from argentina, chile or brazil who have been selected to work with google. Summer of Code could be similar, Why the number of selected organizations from third world is too small? And what about the number of selected students from the third world?. Google knows there are a lot of talent in the third world and there are a important number of google's developers from the third world, and is not easy get a job at google, you need to be very talent developer. Why Summer of Code is different from the rest of Google? -------------------------------------- > Yes, most of the organizations selected operate out of developed nations, but > they serve a global community. A fine example of this is the OLPC > initiative. The technology is being developed in countries like the United > States and the United Kingdom, but specifically serves underdeveloped > nations. By sponsoring students working with OLPC, Google is indirectly > supporting those nations. All of the other organizations that have been > accepted also produce software that can be used in those nations. > This is really a matter of cost vs. benefit. By working with these healthy > organizations in developed nations, Google is able to make the smallest > investment benefit the largest possible number of people. There are also > financial and strategic advantages of working with these organizations > instead of trying to work things out with more localized projects in > third-world countries. Take a look at the complexity of the tax situation. These are wrong ideas. The best solution is support local development. One of most innovative ideas to fight with poverty is microfinances, all programs from all organizations (UN, WB, USAID) support local institutions and initiatives. The same with telecommunications, today all agencies from all the world support local initiatives, microtelcos are the only solution to provide universal access to poor families, most of these families dont know what is a phone. OLPC is another good example, Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay are working toward to provide local support and development, there are many local initiatives to produce, repair and develop software to OLPC machines. Tuquito and UTUTO are examples from Argentina, they want to produce their own OS for OLPC. Brazil want to produce their own "One Server per School" servers and they want to manufacture in brazil the next generations of OLPC. And there are many initiatives about content. My group is working with other groups to produce content in local native languages, quechua, aymara, jibaro, guarani and many other languages, there are 60 millons of quechua speakers in the andes from colombia to argentina. The only form to support FOSS is supporting local development, we need a critical mass of foss communities and developers. Develop technology in the first world to be used in the third world is not the solution !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please learn from other organizations, ask to USAID, WB InfoDev, Ashoka, and many others, Google couls learn a lot about Why local is better. ------------------------------- > Hello, I second that. > Our organization wasn't selected, but it would be a very good support to > be listed (well, not so good as being selected ;-] but... ) > We are a small team from Brazil and it would be very interesting to get > some feedback (and, who knows... some code) from people from around the > world. GSoC can help with that! > De Lucca Our organization was not selected and we are based in Peru. 99% of selected organizations are based in first world countries !!!!!!!!!! and always the number of selected students from the third world is a little number !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ---------------------------- On 16 mar, 00:25, "Chris DiBona" <cdib...(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Last year, we had something like 28% of our students in the US, the rest > were distributed around the world, in 90 countries. 90. That's not a 1. 90. This good 28% students from US and the rest from 90 countries. mmm, how many of these 90 countries are third world countries? Japan, France, Spain, Finland or Canada are not third world countries. Brazil, India are third world countries and was very good that google selected many students from brazil and india in SoC 2006 and SoC 2005. We hope, this year the selected organizations would select more students from the third world. Its is no easy for a student from the third world, most developers in the third world dont have a PC at home and computer labs at universities are full of old and obsolete computers, well this is the reality. However students are very talented, give an opportunity to these students to show their talent ! But What about organizations, How many organizations from the third world have been selected? there are some stats?? --------------------------------------- Dear Thiago You are right, foss movement in Brazil, India and China is very strong, there are a lot of talent ! But is not the same in Peru or Nepal and other less developing countries. Is not charity when I request more support for third world counties specially countries where foss community is small and there are enough local support. Brazil is good example of what thing are right, most brazilean developers have access to huge resources, dont matter if they are poor or rich, if they are good the have an opportunity. Brazilean Universities have state of the art labs, I know because there are a lot of peruvian students in Brazil, they are awarded with fellowships from the brazilean government. Brazil is an important country in science and technology, they have centers of excelence like CBPF, and there are top level research labs in biotechnology and computer science. The flag of Brazil is in the CERN and FERMILAB. Is the same in India and China. However Brazil, India and China are exceptions and not the rule. Most third world country are very poor and their education system are awful, there are not any local infrastructure. Most of peruvian developers dont have a PC at home and computer labs at universities are full of old and obsolete computer. Most foss groups in Peru, Bolivia, Nepal or Zambia dont have the same opportunities than brazilean foss community. I am worry because you know that poverty in Brazil and Peru is the same and we have similar problems. You know why brazil is one of the most innovatives countries, because Brazil support local initiatives, there are a strong foss movement in Brazil, you the brazilean developers are creating innovative technologies. Google thinks that is better develop foss technology in the first world and use this in the third world. You know, this is not the solution. OLPC is the example, the brazilean olpc community is working to develop their own software and hardware, I hear Brazil want to produce their own OLPC machines and One Server per School machines. in Argentina, Tuquito and UTUTO are developing their own OS for OLPC. Do you think is better to develop all at MIT, and Brazil will be only one consumer? ---------------------------------- > And this is probably the reason why there are so few "third-world > excluding BRIC" countries represented in Summer of Code: if students > don't have access to a computer, they can't participate. Heck, they might > not even be aware of the program's existence. > I know those problems exist. But they are beyond the scope of the Summer > of Code initiative. Dear Thiago Beyond the Scope of Summer of Code Inititative, that mean its is not my problem and I wash my hands. We are all in same world !!!!!!! The UN Millennium Development Goals is an example, you cant say this is not my problem, we all citizen, corporations, from all the world, we all must think about and do something to change the world. Google SoC says, well maybe Google.org is interested in this kind of project (social foss). mmm this is very strange, Well I think Google have Social Responsibility Guidelines. I am not sure if Google has been signed UN MDG agreement, or is a member of BSR or UN Global Pact. Why only Google.org, I think all google's employees must be follow the guidelines dont matter if they are in the marketing department or the candy store (they have nice candy and tos store in their offices). Well I read this in RConversations Blog ---------------------- Google is now committed publicly to a process "which aims to produce a set of principles guiding company behavior when faced with laws, regulations and policies that interfere with the achievement of human rights." This is not only the right thing to do, but these U.S.-based firms Microsoft, Yahoo!, Google, Cisco plus the European Vodaphone all recognize that in the long run ethical business is smart business: if your users can't trust you to do all you can to uphold their interests and rights, you will be hard-pressed to retain customers globally. When a company is known to be colluding with state censorship in one country, that tarnishes its credibility in other markets. And when another firm hands political dissidents over to the police in one jurisdiction, its users elsewhere will think twice about using its services. ------------------------------------ Now I understand why develop a open protocol to allow to social activists to speak without government censure is out the Summer of Code scope :) My apologies if my critics are very acid, I am trying to call attention, there are more to do that only code, yes code with a propose. Well I am not familiar with the social and ethical guidelines at google, but I am going to review the google site and make some comments about that. ----------------------------- The only form to support FOSS is supporting local development, we need a critical mass of foss communities and developers. Develop technology in the first world to be used in the third world is not the solution !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Google is right, social foss projects are off SoC scope. I hear there are some initiatives around the world, LinuxChix in Africa they encourage girls who work with foss projects and there are a LinuxChix chapter in Peru, hey the girls are very innovatives. Do you know some Alternatives SoC Initiatives? please share with us. ---------------------------- One Letter to FOSS Organizations We would encourage to take students from developing countries. There are an important number of selected students from Brazil, India and China but these countries are the exception and not the rule. There are not students from Peru, Nepal or Zambia, Why? I know most mentors make selections based only in the proposal or qualifications. Well this is not good, first English is not a universal language and most students from less developing countries dont speak english or have a little knowledge of english grammar. Must students from developer countries dont have a computer at home and most universities from third world dont have computer labs, usually students have access at internet cafes, but this is not free. But they are very talented and creative developers. Please give to these students an opportunity to show their talent. Most organizations are based in first world countries. One of great solutions to provide access to high education in USA and Europe are the special programs to students from minorities or disabilities. In USA thousands of hispanics, blacks, american natives, blind people, etc have an opportunity to access to high education, Harvard, MIT, Princeton, Stanford have many programs. Maybe this students dont have a high GPA or they never take advanced courses at high school but this special programs make the difference. There many stories about students from very poor families who are in Harvard for free because they are granted a special fellowships. Maybe some people think is not just if a student with a high scores from a private high school is not admited at harvard because his place was awarded to black or hispanic student from a getto, and this student have an average or low scores. This is not charity this is justice, this is equality. Please make a difference, thinking about these developer students, they need an opportunity, they are motivated and talented. ----------------------------------------- > That is a good idea. I am also in a third world country ( others say). I > think problem is not the state not the development status of the country. I > is is the problem of popularity of GSOC in those countries . So I think GSOC > mentors must not specially think about thrird world countries. It is a shame > for us. > We are only expected a fair selections. I think mentor are intelligent so > they may not highly consider about the linguistic mistakes. > But I accept that the popularity of GSOC in third world countries too less. > Best Regards, > Eran Dear Eran Google Summer of Code is very popular in many third world countries. SoC is very popular in south america, just check the high number of blogs whick talk about SoC. There are many students from Brazil, India, China and I Think this year will be more applications from this countries than the last year. But what about Peru, Nepal or Zimbabwe. There are not developers in these countries? The foss communities in this countries are very actives and motivated. The last year LinuxChix in Zimbabwe won Software Freedom Day Competition in the teams category. FOSS groups at Nepal are very actives, they are working to promote OLPC project. But What is the message When you never select a student from this countries?. The last year only 1 student from Chile was selected and Chile is one of countries with a large number of foss developers. And never a peruvian student from Peru has been selected, the number of peruvians students in 2006 was 0. $4500 is very attractive, this is equal to the annual income of an peruvian engineer. There are many peruvian students who apply but when a student ask to other student for advice about SoC, the answers is simple dont waste your time google nevers accept peruvian students, only check the SoC page and see how many peruvians have been selected. Google is sending a negative message. Imagine if a black student from a getto want to study at harvard, nobody say this is imposible because harvard never accept black students, what is the positive message, well there are many blacks students at harvard, check the webpage from The Medical School or Law School, there are many opportunities for student from minorities, there many grants and felloships only for support black students. __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/

March 16, 2007

Google Debate

by Luis Gustavo Lira

Dear friends There are a hot debate about Google Summer of Code. Please check this link http://groups.google.com/group/google-summer-of-code-discuss __________________________________________________ Correo Yahoo! Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/

March 16, 2007