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Re: [Dillo-dev] How to get dillo up to speed

by Jorge Arellano Cid

Guys, Once again I want to thank you for the appreciation you have for Dillo as a project. Now, if you read my original message again, you'll find: > Sebastian made a huge effort too. Having a job and developing a > web browser is a very demanding task, and he did even more than > that. I highly respect the man. > > In Germany we decided with him to keep the Dillo FLTK2 closed > until we both agreed to release. and > From some time ago I think it would be good to release the new > code. I have emailed several times with no answer. In fact, I think it was more or less 6 months ago, after some emails with Andrew Tanenbaum, who finally helped me to see that it was a good time to release the code again. Since then, I've tried to contact Sebastian to agree on this. -- On the technical part: > But Dillo need to evolve to support features only existents in modern > browsers as i18n, javascript, https, tabs, flash (gnash), etc. - i18n : this was the main reason for choosing FLTK2 (utf-8). - https: I started this plugin and also wish it can be improved (later Garrett Kajmowicz helped a lot with this). - tabs : I also want Dillo to have TABs. It may take to much time until WM TABs support is as good as internal TABS. I designed a Dillo FLTK2 UI where this is easy to add (one of these days I may code it up... :-) - flash: This depends on a external interpreter. I have no problem in making the hooks. - javascript: This also depends on a external VM, and a supporting framework. It can be done but requires time. I'm not opposed as long as it can be disabled/enabled because it comes with severe security/privacy risks. - CSS : All of us want this! Sebastian made a huge and accurate work to make the CSS model a part of the internal widget structures. We only need to hook the parser. We even showed a prototype in France 2005 at LSM Again, once released, the code will not improve alone, it needs dedicated developers/supporters willing to put their part in order to make the vision we share happen. <<Long life to Dillo!>> -- Cheers Jorge.- PS: For those willing to take our word at face value, I want to state that it was never our intention to sell the code to proprietary hands. BTW, we never did.

April 5, 2007

Re: [Dillo-dev] How to get dillo up to speed; was: LinuxBIOS with X Server Inside

by Justus Winter

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hey@all :) Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > I once asked in this list how many developers were willing to > work on Dillo FLTK2 if released. One answer still stands. I would be willing to try to implement our concepts against session riding in dillo. We (Martin Johns and myself) did some work in this area and created a http proxy and a firefox extension to protect users of web applications against session riding. Both the proxy and the extension approach are highly non-trivial, for different reasons. One being the complexity of the mozilla framework. With dillo this might be a lot easier, so dillo could be the first browser to be immune against session riding out of the box. I am also interested in improving dillos css capabilities. I know there are some patches around. And embedding a ECMAScript interpreter could enable dillo to be used as frontend for all the new web applications (but I know that this is a huge step and requires lots of planning and pondering design questions in the first place). Thanks for all the support, and special thanks to Diego for releasing your patch. I will definitively try it out! Cheers, Justus -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGEXSroPmwNWhsaZYRAk2tAJ0bBn53ltbvSHqsdoYOGu++OvAoOQCeN94b 6NLt9mgy26xXXYi3qsaGF8I= =n2DK -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

April 2, 2007

non released unfinished code (try 2)

by Diego Sáenz

It seems that my previous mail came bad, so i try again: Hello. I agree (in the general discussion) that it is a bad idea to keep closed the dillo FLTK code. (I reserve other opinions for other mail) This mail is only because i have some unfinished code for dillo and want to open/show/give to the rest of the list. One can not demand something without do the same. I have a Dillo PlugIn that add tabs to dillo. The plug in is a GTK 1.2 app and a DPI at the same time. I do not known GTK 1.2 and do not have time to learn it. I was waiting for the FLTK dillo to program a FLTK version, but now i think that it is better to show bad programed unfinished code instead of wait. Try to run it before watch the code (based on a GTK 1.2 example) I hope that some GTK programer can finish it. How do it work: Now dillo can be embedded in other program. This is used by sylpheed for example. The app create a especial gtk widget get its xid and run dillo like that: $ dillo -x xid(this is a number) Then that dillo will appear in the gkt widget and not in a separate window. With a few changes (18 lines added to dillo) dillo can ask the xid to a DPI when it want to open a new window. The DPI is a GTK window with a notebook widget. Each time dillo ask it for a xid the DPI adds a new tab and pass its xid to dillo and dillo appear in the tab. (If the xid returned by the DPI is 0 dillo open a separate window) TODO: - Remove the GTK example code - Add menus to tabs, close tab button ... - maybe add a configuration file Instructions to test it: download the patch attached to this mail (tabs_dpi.diff) get the last dillo cvs (if asked for a password, press ENTER) $ cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@auriga.wearlab.de:/sfhome/cvs/dillo login $ cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@auriga.wearlab.de:/sfhome/cvs/dillo co dillo change to the dillo cvs directory and apply the patch $ cd dillo $ patch -p1 < ../tabs_dpi.diff generate configure, configure code and compile it $ ./autogen.sh && ./configure --disable-dlgui && make install the tabs dpi and optionaly the patched dillo # make install run the patched dillo comanding it to ask the xid and with a given size (only to see the dillo window entirely) $ dillo -x ask -g 700x500 To open a new tab use midle click on a link or the menu file->new browser To close a tab use the remove page button or the menu file->close window Excuse me my english and please test and tell what you think about this. Diego.

April 2, 2007

Re: [Dillo-dev] How to get dillo up to speed

by leslie.polzer＠gmx.net

On Sun, Apr 01, 2007 at 06:47:15PM +0200, Alexander Becher wrote: > Let's up that number then. Make it two. When (not if) Dillo FLTK2 > is released, I will gladly contribute to its advancement, including > working on its core. +1. Time is scarce for me at the moment, but I'm very interested in contributing to Dillo on FLTK2. Leslie -- NEW homepage: https://viridian.dnsalias.net/~sky/homepage/ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys DD4EBF83

April 2, 2007

non released unfinished code

by Diego .

Hello. I agree (in the general discussion) that it is a bad idea to keep closed the dillo FLTK code. (I reserve other opinions for other mail) This mail is only because i have some unfinished code for dillo and want to open/show/give to the rest of the list. I have a Dillo PlugIn that add tabs to dillo. The plug in is a GTK 1.2 app and a DPI at the same time. I do not known GTK 1.2 and do not have time to learn it. I was waiting for the FLTK dillo to program a FLTK version, but now i think that it is better to show bad programed unfinished code instead of wait. Try to run it before watch the code (based on a notebook GTK 1.2example) I hope that some GTK programer can finish it. How do it work: Now dillo can be embedded in other program. This is used by sylpheed for example. The app create a especial gtk widget get its xid and run dillo like that: $ dillo -x xid(this is a number) Then that dillo will appear in the gkt widget and not in a window. With a few changes dillo can ask the xid to a DPI when it want to open a new window. The DPI is a GTK window with a notebook widget. Each time dillo ask it for a xid the DPI adds a new tab and pass its xid to dillo and dillo appear in the tab. Instructions to test it: download the patch attached to this mail (tabs_dpi.diff) get the last dillo cvs (if asked for a password, press ENTER) $ cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@auriga.wearlab.de:/sfhome/cvs/dillo login $ cvs -z3 -d:pserver:anonymous@auriga.wearlab.de:/sfhome/cvs/dillo co dillo change to the dillo cvs directory and apply the patch $ cd dillo $ patch -p1 < ../tabs_dpi.diff generate configure, configure code and compile it $ ./autogen.sh && ./configure --disable-dlgui && make install the tabs dpi and optionaly the patched dillo # make install run the patched dillo comanding it to ask the xid and with a given size (only to see the dillo window entirely) $ dillo -x ask -g 700x500 To open a new tab use midle click on a link or the menu file->new browser To close a tab use the remove page button or the menu file->close window Excuse me my english and please test and tell what you think about this. Diego.

April 2, 2007

Re: [Dillo-dev] How to get dillo up to speed

by Alexander Becher

* Me: >* Matthias Franz: >>But it may not the best approach to ask people to declare >>in advance that they will contribute to Dillo. > >I cannot say I do not disagree with that. s/dis// I meant to say I'd agree with that. Regards, Alexander -- PGP key available

April 1, 2007

Re: [Dillo-dev] How to get dillo up to speed

by Alexander Becher

* Matthias Franz: >On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 10:59:58PM -0400, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: >> I once asked in this list how many developers were willing to >> work on Dillo FLTK2 if released. One answer still stands. Let's up that number then. Make it two. When (not if) Dillo FLTK2 is released, I will gladly contribute to its advancement, including working on its core. >But it may not the best approach to ask people to declare >in advance that they will contribute to Dillo. I cannot say I do not disagree with that. Regards, Alexander -- PGP key available

April 1, 2007

Re: [Dillo-dev] How to get dillo up to speed

by Matthias Franz

On Fri, Mar 30, 2007 at 10:59:58PM -0400, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > I once asked in this list how many developers were willing to > work on Dillo FLTK2 if released. One answer still stands. Dear Jorge, I still think that Dillo is very useful, and it would be a pity if this project died. The reactions on this mailing list show that many people feel like this. But it may not the best approach to ask people to declare in advance that they will contribute to Dillo. I myself get involved in projects the other way round: I have an idea of how to improve things, and if the source code is available (and I have enough time), I start playing around. If at the end anything reasonable comes out, I send it to the project leader, as I did with my Dillo patches. This might then be the starting point for more contributions. I would guess that many people do it this way. Cheers, -- Matthias Franz

March 31, 2007

Re: [Dillo-dev] How to get dillo up to speed; was: LinuxBIOS with X Server Inside

by Alan Carvalho de Assis

Hi Jorge, 2007/3/31, Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org>: > > Guys, please allow me to say that these comments hurt... > > > I do sincerely appreciate the interest that you show in Dillo; > to me it means you understand the concept of it and have hopes in > the project evolving to its vision. > > Me too. I dedicated seven years of my life to developing Dillo > full time. Living on donations, in poor neighborhoods, rejecting > high salaries, and trying to explain my (non-technical) family I > was not crazy for doing it. All this time the code has been open > and GPLd. Anyone could have done the same I did for the project. > > Sebastian made a huge effort too. Having a job and developing a > web browser is a very demanding task, and he did even more than > that. I highly respect the man. > > In Germany we decided with him to keep the Dillo FLTK2 closed > until we both agreed to release. This was mainly because a > company was to hire us to develop it and declined on the last > minute. > > I once asked in this list how many developers were willing to > work on Dillo FLTK2 if released. One answer still stands. > > From some time ago I think it would be good to release the new > code. I have emailed several times with no answer. > > Finally, I currently fail to see I'm the problem, but it could > be. No person saying otherwise is a strong sign. > I appreciate your dedication to Dillo, you was (are) a good father to this project. As all father you want to protect your child and have fear the way it can follow. But Dillo need to evolve to support features only existents in modern browsers as i18n, javascript, https, tabs, flash (gnash), etc. I know you always had fear that Dillo become very fat and run away from the original intention of project. But maybe you can found a way to balance between these 2 variables (features / size and/or speed), maybe a modular system (using the Dillo plugin system for example). Keeping the source code closed you will not get developers and day after day this code base will become deprecated and don't will get new features. This is the evolution theory of Darwin, if it don't evolve it will die and will be replaced by other (Minimo?, NetSurf?, other). Please Jorge think about this. Now that Linux is become the mainstream on smart phone market, Dillo can get a break (get a chance), but keeping it closed source (on closed curtains) will be more difficult to company see the Dillo potential. > > -- > Sincerely > Jorge.- > Best regards, Alan

March 31, 2007

Re: [Dillo-dev] How to get dillo up to speed; was: LinuxBIOS with X Server Inside

by Jorge Arellano Cid

Guys, please allow me to say that these comments hurt... I do sincerely appreciate the interest that you show in Dillo; to me it means you understand the concept of it and have hopes in the project evolving to its vision. Me too. I dedicated seven years of my life to developing Dillo full time. Living on donations, in poor neighborhoods, rejecting high salaries, and trying to explain my (non-technical) family I was not crazy for doing it. All this time the code has been open and GPLd. Anyone could have done the same I did for the project. Sebastian made a huge effort too. Having a job and developing a web browser is a very demanding task, and he did even more than that. I highly respect the man. In Germany we decided with him to keep the Dillo FLTK2 closed until we both agreed to release. This was mainly because a company was to hire us to develop it and declined on the last minute. I once asked in this list how many developers were willing to work on Dillo FLTK2 if released. One answer still stands. From some time ago I think it would be good to release the new code. I have emailed several times with no answer. Finally, I currently fail to see I'm the problem, but it could be. No person saying otherwise is a strong sign. -- Sincerely Jorge.-

March 31, 2007