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Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: SPAM in the list :(

by Johann Koenig

On Friday October 17 at 10:10am Kelson Vibber <kelson(a)pobox.com> wrote: > I've been using SpamAssassin for well over a year now. While it's > very effective, there are occasionally false positives (fewer now than > there used to be, but they haven't disappeared completely). If it's > possible with Mailman, I'd suggest quarantining mail that SpamAssassin > labels, rather than deleting it outright. Yeah, I use it too, it's pretty good. However, a mailing list is not anywhere near the same as a regular mailbox. Consider, that they do quarantine messages. Perhaps 1% is marked 'unsure.' Now consider that this is not the only mailing list maintained by auriga.wearlab.de. Let's assume 1000 messages per day across all mailing lists. That's 100 messages that must be scanned, every day, probably by someone who is not getting paid. Considering that I only have 87 messages in dillo-dev, and I've been watching the list for some time, thats almost 1 message lost. Could it have been some super-important message? No, because while dillo is really really cool, it's not all too critical (at least not for me). Plus, if it is super-critical, use email, not mailing lists. I, for one, really appreciate the list green-lighting this spam removal. -- -johann koenig Today is Sweetmorn, the 67th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3169 My public pgp key: http://mental-graffiti.com/pgp/johannkoenig.pgp

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: SPAM in the list :(

by Phil Pennock

On 2003-10-17 at 10:10 -0700, Kelson Vibber wrote: > I've been using SpamAssassin for well over a year now. While it's very > effective, there are occasionally false positives (fewer now than there > used to be, but they haven't disappeared completely). If it's possible > with Mailman, I'd suggest quarantining mail that SpamAssassin labels, > rather than deleting it outright. There's one major difference. If user Fred sends mail to user Barney and Barney's spam-filters delete it, Fred never knows this. If user Fred sends mail to a mailing-list to which Fred is subscribed, Fred sees that his mail never makes it through. He can raise the issue with the list-owner, or look over his mail and think "Hrm, that was written in a poor way, wasn't it?" or whatever. There's user feedback. Jorge's shown that he understands this principle with Dillo. :^) It makes all the difference. If this is a big concern, then it might be worth a monthly mail-out of the list charter with a brief list FAQ, such as some mailing-lists used to have (and USENET certainly did). -- 2001: Blogging invented. Promises to change the way people bore strangers with banal anecdotes about their pets. <http://www.thelemon.net/issues/timeline.php>

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: SPAM in the list :(

by Kelson Vibber

At 09:22 AM 10/17/2003, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: >On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Andreas Kemnade wrote: > > spamassassin is attached to dillo-dev now. Every message considered as spam > > will be deleted without notice. I'm a bit concerned about that. From the SpamAssassin FAQ: http://spamassassin.taint.org/faq/index.cgi?req=show&file=faq01.010.htp >1.10. Is it sensible to simply delete all mail that SpamAssassin marks as >being spam? > >In general, no. While SpamAssassin is very good at picking out a large >proportion of spam, it's impossible for a computer to do this job >perfectly. You should only delete mail if you (and your users/customers) >would find it acceptable to lose mail that might be legitimate. A much >better idea is to filter possible spam into a separate folder that can be >checked less frequently than the normal mailbox. I've been using SpamAssassin for well over a year now. While it's very effective, there are occasionally false positives (fewer now than there used to be, but they haven't disappeared completely). If it's possible with Mailman, I'd suggest quarantining mail that SpamAssassin labels, rather than deleting it outright. Kelson Vibber www.hyperborea.org

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Dillo CVS has no bookmark menu?

by Jorge Arellano Cid

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, johannes leimbach wrote: > Hi! > > Is it only me, or is the bookmark menu broken in the current cvs version? > It does not show up.. > > Thanks for answer! We've been making sevral changed to dpid lately, but it works! Just make sure you don't have an obsolete dpid on ~/.dillo/ or anywhere in your path. (rm `which dpid`; cd dpid/; strip dpid; cp dpid ~/.dillo) Also make sure the bookmarks dpi binary is accesible. Ah, you may also have an old dpid already running, kill all of the instances and make sure they're gone! ps aux | grep dpi; kill stuff... (kill the dpis first, then dpi. We're working on this). HTH Jorge.-

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: SPAM in the list :(

by Jorge Arellano Cid

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Andreas Kemnade wrote: > On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:36:44 -0300 (CLST) > Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> wrote: > > > > > Hi Andi, > > > > I just noticed four intances of the "nigerian scam" type of > > SPAM in dillo-dev. I'm worried because usually I also receive > > warning bounces from recipients telling that mail from dillo-dev > > may end being filetered out. > > > spamassassin is attached to dillo-dev now. Every message considered as spam > will be deleted without notice. > > Greetings > Andreas Kemnade Take note guys! If you ever feel unsure about whether a message made its way into the list, just check the archives. Cheers Jorge.- PS: Thanks Andreas.

Oct. 17, 2003

[PATCH] Version 2 of keyboard navigation, solves problem with Tab

by Frank de Lange

Hi'all, The next version (2) of my keyboard navigation patch is ready. See the end of this message for download instructions. Do note that the tab/frame patch already contains this functionality, so there is no need (and no way) to apply this patch on top of that or the other way around. This release does not contain any major new functionality. It solves the problems with Tab, which now does what you'd expect it to do: cycle through form widgets. For more info on what this patch does, see the last message on the list or the doc/Keyboard_Navigation.txt document (after applying the patch, naturally...) Download instructions ===================== There is currently only one version of the patch, made against 20031017/11:26GMT CVS. As always, have a look at the patch website (http://www.geocities.com/ikbenfrank/) for the latest version of the patch. This patch does NOT apply on top of the tab/frame patch, and the tab/frame patch does not apply on top of this one! The tab/frame patch already contains this functionality, so it is not needed. http://www.geocities.com/ikbenfrank/dillo-200310171559-kbnav.patch.gz size: 14494 bytes (gzipped, as downloaded) 64277 bytes (uncompressed) md5sum: 8ebd2450b762a720363346c0c4a7a537 (gzipped, as downloaded) 9538b60172b910e89c993d887b28bc97 (uncompressed) Cheers//Frank -- WWWWW ________________________ ## o o\ / Frank de Lange \ }# \| / +46-734352015 \ \ `--| _/ <Hacker for Hire> \ `---' \ +31-640037120 / \ frank(a)unternet.org / `------------------------' [ "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est." ]

Oct. 17, 2003

[PATCH] Version 12 of tab/frame/kbnav patch, solves problem with Tab

by Frank de Lange

Hi'all, The next version (12) of my tab/frame/keyboard navigation patch is ready (see bottom of this message for download instructions). No big new features this time, just a useability fix for the Tab key and an update to the latest CVS. Tab now does what you'd expect it to do, cycle through form widgets. I'll spare you the usual list of comments on this release, it would be identical to last release's list anyway... Download instructions ===================== The patch is made against 20031017/11:26GMT CVS. Do not forget to run ./autogen.sh after applying the patch. You can find the patch on the usual (ad-happy, use an ad-blocking proxy or sane browser) site: http://www.geocities.com/ikbenfrank/ More specifically: Dillo 0.8.0-pre (CVS) ===================== http://www.geocities.com/ikbenfrank/dillo-20031017-tabs.patch.gz size: 85658 bytes (gzipped, as downloaded) 373460 bytes (uncompressed) md5sum: be0618ac0136fafd9f7f91ce8a4db142 (gzipped, as downloaded) 41438b3b27bf45f23b6a9069eee37cb6 (uncompressed) As always, check the site for the most recent version Cheers//Frank -- WWWWW ________________________ ## o o\ / Frank de Lange \ }# \| / \ \ `--| _/ <Hacker for Hire> \ `---' \ +46-734352015 / \ frank(a)unternet.org / `------------------------' [ "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est." ]

Oct. 17, 2003

/. crap

by Andrew A. Gill

[I'm not subscribed to the list, but I do read it in the archives.] Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:44:33 -0400 From: Jamie McCarthy <jamie(a)mccarthy.vg> Subject: Re: [secret-list] /. hubris superluser(a)frontiernet.net (Andrew A. Gill) writes: > For a while, users of Dillo (<http://www.dillo.org>) have been > having trouble reading Slashdot (<http://slashdot.org>). Looks > like a misplaced </td></tr> is to blame. Anybody want to > pester Cowboy Neal? Well, this is one of the fun things about working on a public project: I get bug reports through more than just the usual channels. Hi, I'm Jamie, I'm the one who wrote the bug, and I'm the one who will get around to fixing it... eventually. There's no immediately simple way to fix the HTML. What's going on is actually kind of interesting. Slashdot runs on Slash, which is a publicly available project used on hundreds of other websites. The look of Slashdot and its front-page table layout is fairly different under the hood from the layout of "Slashcode," which is the default theme that we ship. These differences are mostly encoded in template files, which are data chunks arranged mostly hierarchically that can be selected in all kinds of interesting ways. That means, sadly, that changing one template has many repercussions. Obviously I know where the buggy HTML output is; that's what that commented-out  tag is doing there. But I have to think about what that change would do not just to Slashdot, but to the Slashcode theme generically, to the sites that use that theme as-is, to the dozen other sites my company runs that have modified that theme, to the who-knows how many other sites that strangers run that have modified that theme, to "light mode," to the three or four separate scripts that use the template, I have to test with the pre-rendering caching, etc., etc. Slashdot's HTML layout has always been broken. Early this year I took it upon myself to fix it and quickly realized that there was no good way to fix just Slashdot, without either breaking Slashcode as well or introducing a large number of copy-and-pasted code as a difference between the two that would have to be maintained. What I did instead was write code for the Template Toolkit that lets these dozens of templates build the HTML tables dynamically. As new <TR> and <TD> tags are laid out, variables are incremented and decremented. By the time we get to the bottom of the page, the code knows how many <TD>s and <TR>s it's got to close, and how, in order to make the HTML all nice and pristine. That way, Slashdot.org and Slashcode.com can have wholly different columnar layouts and the low-level templates don't have to know about any of it. The CPU overhead is minimal, and overall it works great. Except there's one bug. It doesn't keep proper track of the tables it's building. It dumps errors in the log so I know about where it is. But it's difficult to narrow down. In my defense, it was broken before I wrote this code, and while it's still broken now, it's broken *less*. But it's broken *differently* and of course there is one browser that (unlike every other browser ever written) isn't smart enough to handle malformed table tags. <http://www.dillo.org/> This is the part where I rhetorically ask why anyone would write a web browser from scratch, the goal of which is to render 100% syntactically correct webpages really really fast. Are there not enough existing web browsers whose goals are to render pages really really fast? Is it perhaps not widely known that there exists, somewhere on the web, HTML code which just might not be 100% exactly correct? Is it smart to build a nitro-burning funny car dragster to carry your groceries and then complain to mailing lists about the potholes on Main Street? When version 0.7.2 of the funny car handled the potholes just fine, but 0.7.3 explodes on contact, should its designers necessarily be focused entirely on the potholes? And should anyone be surprised that writing a web browser is hard? If I could find a way to ask those questions without sounding like I was shifting the blame off my own fool self, I would. It's one of those things that is probably a nice easy single day of work. But I can't remember the last time I actually had a whole day to work on something. Our new load balancer is choking our webheads with unACK'd SYN's and I'm not sure whose fault it is. (And of course the new load balancer is named "pound," only the most common word in the English language, so good luck Googling for anyone else with the same problems.) Our new sites being launched are extending the code in ways it wasn't built for and we're having to scramble. DB replication on one of those new sites went down this morning, and while we built some kickass code to failover to the master, we hadn't had time to get that running yet. Oh, and either my ISP or my home router/gateway is flaky, so I keep falling off the internet. And of course, the day after I fix the HTML 3.2 table layout bug, I am quite certain my boss will email me to say it's finally time to start working on the switch to XHTML and CSS, which we've been planning for a year and just haven't had time for. So yes, I'd love to fix your bug. I don't like emitting broken HTML code either. I'm a big fan of adhering to standards, and I'm a big fan of not having my code embarrass me in public. I hate feeling like a jackass. But I have other things to worry about, and you have other browsers to choose from that render Slashdot just fine. Meanwhile, your bug sits right here, at Priority 5, where it's sat since we first diagnosed it in April: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=719813&group_id=4421&atid=… -- Jamie McCarthy http://mccarthy.vg/ jamie(a)mccarthy.vg Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:50:48 -0400 From: Jamie McCarthy <jamie(a)mccarthy.vg> Subject: Re: [secret-list] /. hubris superluser(a)frontiernet.net (Andrew A. Gill) writes: > > Well, this is one of the fun things about working on a public > > project: I get bug reports through more than just the usual > > channels. Hi, I'm Jamie, I'm the one who wrote the bug, and > > I'm the one who will get around to fixing it... eventually. > > Do you mind if I forward this message to the Dillo people? If you do, mention to them that I'm not picking on them. This bug is my fault and I'll fix it. I wish them luck and I'm glad they're doing what they're doing (anyone writing GPL code is OK in my book). It's just that I won't fix it until it gets to the top of my priority list, fact of life, and there's a lot of other things up there... :( A workaround meanwhile is to try light mode, which you can get to past the black window with: http://slashdot.org/index.pl?light=1 http://slashdot.org/users.pl?op=edithome&light=1 and then check the "Light" box, and Save to make that your pref. -- Jamie McCarthy http://mccarthy.vg/ jamie(a)mccarthy.vg

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: gtk2 and dillo ( was FLTK )

by Jorge Arellano Cid

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Madis Janson wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, robert w hall wrote: > > > In article <20031016032905.GA12137(a)ws0.localdomain>, Stephen Lewis > > <slewis(a)paradise.net.nz> writes > > >On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 10:20:11AM -0300, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > > >> > > >> This is also an RFC for information on GTK+2 (speed, size, > > >> linkings etc). > > >> > > >> Please back your opinions with links, docs, facts or with > > >> whatever helps better to understand the point. Maybe a single > > >> email can show there's no way to do it, or maybe not! > > > > > >I've just been playing with the GTK+2 patch, and I've got some > > >numbers (I won't call them fact :), and opinions: > > > > can we assume/hope/plead (in the light of these numbers!) that any move > > to gtk2 is post-dillo-0.8 :-) > > > > Read dillo goals ;) > > I believe that the move to gtk2 will be done only then, when it can be > done without affecting dillo's usability as a light and fast browser. Sure, dillo-0.8.0 will be a GTK1 app. BTW, I foresee almost a month to its release: we still have to sabilize dpi, and study/merge/modify some/all of Frank's patches. Last but not the least, please continue posting on the FLTK thread. It's the same! Cheers Jorge.-

Oct. 17, 2003

Dillo CVS has no bookmark menu?

by johannes leimbach

Hi! Is it only me, or is the bookmark menu broken in the current cvs version? It does not show up.. Thanks for answer! Cheers, johannes

Oct. 17, 2003