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Please help me on this...

by Johannes.Hofmann＠gmx.de

Hi, On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 04:19:29PM -0400, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > Hi there, > > Looking to a future dillo2 release for the public, I was > wondering about the main drive behind dillo2. > > I mean, in this years of Facebook, WebKit, Flash, propietary > video codecs, etc. what's the main point behind dillo2? > > From the objectives: > > 1.- The democratization of internet information access. > 2.- Personal security and privacy. For me these two are becoming more important in the face of: http://news.slashdot.org/news/08/07/04/1343214.shtml http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/07/03/2156204.shtml http://tech.slashdot.org/tech/08/07/03/0310203.shtml ... > 3.- High software efficiency. > > The first one is interesting to analyze along the lines that > dillo allows to search for tons of information spread through the > Internet using low HW requirements and low bandwidth as a dialup. > This is reassuring as dillo efectively enables information > access to any person under such constraints. > > The second one is partly attained by not writing to HD and by a > non-existent scripting support. Yes, non-existent scripting is a feature. However I think there is more we can do regarding security. Bug fixes and reviewing of the parser. Someone already talked about some tool to test dillo with random incorrect html - I need to check this. Also we could try to make dillo work nice as an untrusted X11 client. It almost works fine already btw. > > The third one is the one to brag about. ;-) :-) > > > Since some time, the thought that enabling dillo2 as a help > browser could also bring local information (i.e. in HD) closer to > the user came as a powerful one. Having an app. that pops-up in a > second and that's quick, responsive and easy to use is certainly > a strong drive for a person in search of information (that's why > I'd like to see it inside Debian as a help system). > > In the near future, I'd like to have CSS and proper floating > text rendering (DIV element), plus an API as a help browser. > > > There're countries where paying Universitary studies is the > state's burden. If a citizen doesn't want to study there, it's a > choice. I think the same may happen with dillo, once people know > about it, they can choose to use it or not. > > While thinking about it, these comments surprised me: > > "Slashdot | What Do You Want On Future Browsers?" > http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/30/1845201 > > (yes, give them a read!) > > (They're talking from a full featured Firefox basis. I > don't know how may of them would like to use something like > dillo) > I'm sure there will be quite some interest in dillo. Even more, if it will support CSS one day. http://fltk.org/newsgroups.php?s4845+gfltk.development+v4846+T0 and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Web_Browser is interesting too. Also it should already be possible to compile dillo-fltk on OSX and with some work also under Cygwin. No X11 needed in both cases! Anyway, if we focus on making a browser that suits our needs, it will most probabely also suit others. > > Behind a project like ours, there're two communities: > developers and users. The main factor to push forward the project > is developers and their motivations (in a commercial environment > what pushes the development is the money invested and the profit > margins/strategy sought). > > That's why I'm asking you to help me with your views, needs > visions on the future of dillo2 these days. My vision is a secure, fast, and stable browser with a nice community :-) > > With regard to the user community, I'd love to have some > feedback from them, but I guess we need to release dillo2 first! > > :-) > Cheers, Johannes

July 4, 2008

[patch] iterator related bugs

by jcid＠dillo.org

On Fri, Jul 04, 2008 at 05:27:21PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > On Fri, Jul 04, 2008 at 11:19:43AM -0400, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 04:09:19PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > now I have a reliable way to reproduce the problem. On DragonFly I > > > use debug malloc options, but valgrind should also work. Even > > > without any debug features I can crash dillo that way, but it takes > > > longer. > > > > > > * Choose a rather long page that does not fit on the screen with > > > lot's of links. I use my bookmarks page. > > > > > > * Start the search dialog and enter a very common string e.g. 2 > > > chars and hold the Enter key down. Dillo now scrolls through the > > > page over and over again. > > > > > > * Now click the 1. mouse button and move the mouse like crazy over > > > the scrolling page so arbitrary text gets selected and deselected. > > > > > > That crashes dillo pretty soon for me. > > > > Funny as it may look, I can't reproduce it here. Maybe it's not > > strange because we've already noticed DragonFly handles memory in > > a different way than GNU/Linux. > > > > I could crash it like this under valgrind on a linux box. I also tried with: valgrind --tool=memcheck --leak-check=yes ./dillo-fltk but I believe you! :-) > > > > BTW, it's in things like this that I really dislike C++... > > Yes, it can get tricky. On the other hand C++ in dillo is pretty > harmless compared to other projects :-) 8-P -- Cheers Jorge.-

July 4, 2008

[patch] cleanup ZoneAllocator

by Johannes.Hofmann＠gmx.de

On Fri, Jul 04, 2008 at 05:06:22PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt wrote: > * Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> schrieb: > > On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 07:38:42PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > here comes me ZoneAllocator cleanup again. This time without the > > > questionable strlen() stuff. > > > > Committed. > > BTW: could this allocator live in it's own lib ? > Would be nice, to have an universal lib for that, IMHO :) It depends on SimpleVector. The lout stuff as a whole is a nice little library. Or, if that's too bloated, you can use the lout/misc.hh file standalone :-) Cheers, Johannes

July 4, 2008

Attention subscribers

by jcid＠dillo.org

Hi subscribers, For those that subscribed long ago but couldn't get your messages across, your accounts have been cleared for posting. Sorry for the inconvinience, the dillo project is slowly getting into full pace again... -- Cheers Jorge.-

July 4, 2008

9P

by weigelt＠metux.de

* Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> schrieb: > It took some time to get back to you, but the topics raised are > non trivial. Let's start with the simpler one: What exactly does it make so complex ? BTW: on Plan9 even the whole web access runs via its own fileserver (webfs). IMHO we should keep that in mind and someday go that way. > > ACK. Maybe would should go the way Mutt does: it internally > > works with commands, and keystrokes are mapped to commands. > > Perfect for me. > > If you can patch dillo to do that, it'd be great. I'm currently too occupied, but you may trigger me in about a month ago :) > > you can add me, as long as no C++ stuff is involved. > > (don't like it's overhead). > > I also don't like C++ and its complexity! > > FLTK2 is in C++ so we had to interface with it. The idea was to > keep C++ to a minimum set of features. Does it really have to be fltk2 ? Aren't there enough other widget toolkits (in plain-C) out there ? > OTOH, windowing systems and widgets are quite well suited for > the object oriented approach, and in some places it gets simpler > than dealing directly with inheritance in C (as with GTK1). hmm, does gtk2 make it better ? > > [Translations] > > I'm already working on German translation. > > Are you working on a generic approach to translations or just German? I just added a new transled the .po file. > > [CSS] > > > * Planning for CSS, floating objects and TABS. > > > (this are important features to a nice browsing experience) > > > > Missing CSS is really bad. > > I'm planning to write an universal but small CSS parser > > (as an separate library). > > You may give a look to RCSS by Raph Levien. Okay, I'll have a look at if time allows. > > [Dillo as a help system] > > I'd like to use Dillo for an help system and control center on an > > end-user desktop appliance. Therefore I need it to execute certain > > commands. But Dillo itself should not fork/exec itself, instead > > send the commands to some special daemon via an 9P channel. > > I'd like to have Dillo as a help system in Debian! Well, that's a bit similar :) > > An simple approach could be coding an dpi which just parses the > > requested URL and sends the actual command to the exec server > > through 9P. But I have to make absolutely sure that commands > > can only be sent when coming from certain pages. > > > > How can I achieve this ? > > A simple way is to isolate those "certain pages" into a fixed URL scheme > (e.g. localhost:8081/admin file:/etc/read_only_directory/) and to check that > signature from the dpi. For this to work, you have to send the "requesting URL" > to the dpi by using dpip. hmm, we could introduce a new exec:// url scheme and filter by Referer-Header. > > I'd prefer a more generic approach: making everything available > > via 9P and let separate programs work on that filesystem. > > This also allows lot's other funny things, eg. an HTML external > > editor which directly operates on an document within an dillo > > viewer ;-) > > The 9P way of interaction is powerful. > > I like the idea of interfacing to a Javascript VM with 9P, > and reusing a proved protocol instead of having to extend/debug > dpip. :) Maybe be we even could replace the whole dpip stuff by 9P. > Now, being a 9P newbie, how much (in LOC or KB) does it add > to become a 9P server or client? This is my main concern. Quite minimal. Have a look at: svn://svn.metux.de/public/9exec svn://svn.metux.de/public/9p-mixerfs svn://svn.metux.de/public/9p-sysdb_fs The libs used: svn://svn.metux.de/public/libmixp svn://svn.metux.de/public/libmixpsrv And an vfs library that supports 9p: svn://svn.metux.de/public/libmvfs (authenticate with anonymous:anonymous to svn) > I'd like to see a sketch of a Dillo help system design using 9P. > Currently dpid would provide a Unix socket to command Dillo, and 9P > does something quite similar but more generic. The idea of being able > to remote-control Dillo from a simple application/script with a 9P > interface is more than interesting. Yep :) With libmixpsrv you can easily provide access to variables or commands through an filesystem. No more additional protocol needed - everything just sits in an hierachy with an simple and uniform access model. > For instance: Load URL, Reload, Stop, Open New window, Back, Forward, > images on/off, etc. Right, settings are just files (one file per setting). Actions are performed by writing to certain files. Let's say, some viewer is in the subdir /viewers/1/, you just write to /viewers/1/url to load a new page. > AFAIS, we'd need to make dillo work internally with commands, and > then exposing that interface for the external world. If the dillo help > system design looks interesting we can start from there. Obviously you > have given it some thought in your project so please share your ideas > with us. I'll summarize evrything as soon as I've got more time. (currently in jack-bauer-mode ;-)) > Obviously using 9P to remote-control dillo seems like an overkill, > but when it comes to Javascript, or interfacing to external apps. as > an HTML viewer, or serving as a GUI, it looks reasonable. Right, because in that case we need some command protocol nevertheless, so the additional complexity is required. When using 9P (via libmixpsrv), most of the things are already done :) cu -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------

July 4, 2008

[patch] iterator related bugs

by Johannes.Hofmann＠gmx.de

On Fri, Jul 04, 2008 at 11:19:43AM -0400, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 04:09:19PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > > Hi, > > > > now I have a reliable way to reproduce the problem. On DragonFly I > > use debug malloc options, but valgrind should also work. Even > > without any debug features I can crash dillo that way, but it takes > > longer. > > > > * Choose a rather long page that does not fit on the screen with > > lot's of links. I use my bookmarks page. > > > > * Start the search dialog and enter a very common string e.g. 2 > > chars and hold the Enter key down. Dillo now scrolls through the > > page over and over again. > > > > * Now click the 1. mouse button and move the mouse like crazy over > > the scrolling page so arbitrary text gets selected and deselected. > > > > That crashes dillo pretty soon for me. > > Funny as it may look, I can't reproduce it here. Maybe it's not > strange because we've already noticed DragonFly handles memory in > a different way than GNU/Linux. > I could crash it like this under valgrind on a linux box. > > > > Attached patch fixes the problem here. Please test and check for > > potential memory leaks. > > BTW, the patch fixes one leak in Iterator::scrollTo(). > > Committed both. > > I gave it a review: > > [OK] new DeepIterator > [OK] DeepIterator *DeepIterator::createVariant(Iterator *it) > [OK] object::Object *DeepIterator::clone () > OK cloneDeepIterator() > TableIterator() \ Not reviewed because thay don't inherit > TextblockIterator() / from DeepIterator > [OK][2] SelectionState::buttonPress() Thanks for reviewing. > > BTW, it's in things like this that I really dislike C++... Yes, it can get tricky. On the other hand C++ in dillo is pretty harmless compared to other projects :-) Cheers, Johannes

July 4, 2008

[patch] iterator related bugs

by jcid＠dillo.org

On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 04:09:19PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > Hi, > > now I have a reliable way to reproduce the problem. On DragonFly I > use debug malloc options, but valgrind should also work. Even > without any debug features I can crash dillo that way, but it takes > longer. > > * Choose a rather long page that does not fit on the screen with > lot's of links. I use my bookmarks page. > > * Start the search dialog and enter a very common string e.g. 2 > chars and hold the Enter key down. Dillo now scrolls through the > page over and over again. > > * Now click the 1. mouse button and move the mouse like crazy over > the scrolling page so arbitrary text gets selected and deselected. > > That crashes dillo pretty soon for me. Funny as it may look, I can't reproduce it here. Maybe it's not strange because we've already noticed DragonFly handles memory in a different way than GNU/Linux. > Attached patch fixes the problem here. Please test and check for > potential memory leaks. > BTW, the patch fixes one leak in Iterator::scrollTo(). Committed both. I gave it a review: [OK] new DeepIterator [OK] DeepIterator *DeepIterator::createVariant(Iterator *it) [OK] object::Object *DeepIterator::clone () OK cloneDeepIterator() TableIterator() \ Not reviewed because thay don't inherit TextblockIterator() / from DeepIterator [OK][2] SelectionState::buttonPress() BTW, it's in things like this that I really dislike C++... -- Cheers Jorge.-

July 4, 2008

[patch] cleanup ZoneAllocator

by weigelt＠metux.de

* Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> schrieb: > On Mon, Jun 23, 2008 at 07:38:42PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > > Hi, > > > > here comes me ZoneAllocator cleanup again. This time without the > > questionable strlen() stuff. > > Committed. BTW: could this allocator live in it's own lib ? Would be nice, to have an universal lib for that, IMHO :) cu -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- Enrico Weigelt == metux IT service - http://www.metux.de/ --------------------------------------------------------------------- Please visit the OpenSource QM Taskforce: http://wiki.metux.de/public/OpenSource_QM_Taskforce Patches / Fixes for a lot dozens of packages in dozens of versions: http://patches.metux.de/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------

July 4, 2008

Please help me on this...

by jcid＠dillo.org

Hi there, Looking to a future dillo2 release for the public, I was wondering about the main drive behind dillo2. I mean, in this years of Facebook, WebKit, Flash, propietary video codecs, etc. what's the main point behind dillo2? From the objectives: 1.- The democratization of internet information access. 2.- Personal security and privacy. 3.- High software efficiency. The first one is interesting to analyze along the lines that dillo allows to search for tons of information spread through the Internet using low HW requirements and low bandwidth as a dialup. This is reassuring as dillo efectively enables information access to any person under such constraints. The second one is partly attained by not writing to HD and by a non-existent scripting support. The third one is the one to brag about. ;-) Since some time, the thought that enabling dillo2 as a help browser could also bring local information (i.e. in HD) closer to the user came as a powerful one. Having an app. that pops-up in a second and that's quick, responsive and easy to use is certainly a strong drive for a person in search of information (that's why I'd like to see it inside Debian as a help system). In the near future, I'd like to have CSS and proper floating text rendering (DIV element), plus an API as a help browser. There're countries where paying Universitary studies is the state's burden. If a citizen doesn't want to study there, it's a choice. I think the same may happen with dillo, once people know about it, they can choose to use it or not. While thinking about it, these comments surprised me: "Slashdot | What Do You Want On Future Browsers?" http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/30/1845201 (yes, give them a read!) (They're talking from a full featured Firefox basis. I don't know how may of them would like to use something like dillo) Behind a project like ours, there're two communities: developers and users. The main factor to push forward the project is developers and their motivations (in a commercial environment what pushes the development is the money invested and the profit margins/strategy sought). That's why I'm asking you to help me with your views, needs visions on the future of dillo2 these days. With regard to the user community, I'd love to have some feedback from them, but I guess we need to release dillo2 first! :-) -- Cheers Jorge.-

July 3, 2008

[patch] use delete[] where necessary

by jcid＠dillo.org

On Thu, Jul 03, 2008 at 04:14:31PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > On Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 07:14:31PM -0400, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 02, 2008 at 10:38:51PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > attached patch uses delete[] for deleting arrays as required by C++. > > > > Committed. > > > > Hey, a quick test showed memory usage reduction! > > Ah nice. Didn't notice that. But it's quite significative! Around 12% reduction on VSZ and 13% on RSS. And the combined effect of all the memory reduction patches has come to reduce around 50% on RSS and 28% on VSZ in dillo2. Furthermore, when comparing dillo2 with dillo1, dillo2 uses near 45% less memory than dillo1. These are interesting figures. Below is an updated table of the huge page memory usage test case: ----------- Bck/Fwd test %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND 0.1 9672 4144 pts/10 S+ 09:37 0:00 ./dillo-fltk.19Jun bare 0.2 10376 4756 pts/10 S+ 09:37 0:00 ./dillo-fltk.19Jun dir list 6.9 176176 144776 pts/10 S+ 09:37 0:02 ./dillo-fltk.19Jun huge page 5.4 123556 113216 pts/10 S+ 09:37 0:02 ./dillo-fltk.19Jun back 7.0 176176 146240 pts/10 S+ 09:37 0:05 ./dillo-fltk.19Jun forward 5.6 127020 117720 pts/10 S+ 09:37 0:05 ./dillo-fltk.19Jun back 7.0 176172 146240 pts/10 S+ 09:37 0:07 ./dillo-fltk.19Jun forward 5.6 127016 117716 pts/10 S+ 09:37 0:08 ./dillo-fltk.19Jun back %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND 0.1 9672 4140 pts/10 S+ 09:26 0:00 ./dillo-fltk.21Jun bare 0.2 10376 4760 pts/10 S+ 09:26 0:00 ./dillo-fltk.21Jun dir list 5.9 147904 123988 pts/10 S+ 09:31 0:02 ./dillo-fltk.21Jun huge page 4.9 111668 101944 pts/10 S+ 09:31 0:02 ./dillo-fltk.21Jun back 6.0 147780 124792 pts/10 S+ 09:31 0:05 ./dillo-fltk.21Jun forward 5.0 115008 105780 pts/10 S+ 09:31 0:05 ./dillo-fltk.21Jun back 6.0 147780 124856 pts/10 S+ 09:31 0:07 ./dillo-fltk.21Jun forward 5.1 115008 105844 pts/10 S+ 09:31 0:07 ./dillo-fltk.21Jun back %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND 0.1 9676 4084 pts/10 S+ 11:16 0:00 ./dillo-fltk bare 0.2 10464 4768 pts/10 S+ 11:17 0:00 ./dillo-fltk dir list 5.4 136960 112920 pts/10 S+ 11:17 0:04 ./dillo-fltk huge page 4.3 100724 90864 pts/10 S+ 11:17 0:04 ./dillo-fltk back 5.4 136952 113756 pts/10 S+ 11:17 0:09 ./dillo-fltk forward 4.5 104180 94744 pts/10 S+ 11:17 0:09 ./dillo-fltk back 5.4 136888 113776 pts/10 S+ 11:17 0:13 ./dillo-fltk forward 4.5 104116 94764 pts/10 S+ 11:17 0:14 ./dillo-fltk back %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND 0.2 9676 4156 pts/13 S+ 14:57 0:00 ./dillo-fltk.03Jul bare 0.2 10300 4588 pts/13 S+ 14:57 0:00 ./dillo-fltk.03Jul dir list 5.0 114852 104808 pts/13 S+ 14:57 0:02 ./dillo-fltk.03Jul huge page 3.9 92196 82840 pts/13 S+ 14:57 0:02 ./dillo-fltk.03Jul back 5.1 117348 107284 pts/13 S+ 14:57 0:04 ./dillo-fltk.03Jul forward 3.9 92260 82972 pts/13 S+ 14:57 0:05 ./dillo-fltk.03Jul back 5.1 117364 107300 pts/13 S+ 14:57 0:07 ./dillo-fltk.03Jul forward 3.9 92260 82972 pts/13 S+ 14:57 0:07 ./dillo-fltk.03Jul back %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND 0.1 8408 3524 pts/10 S+ 10:59 0:00 ./dillo1 bare 0.1 24788 3564 pts/10 S+ 11:01 0:00 ./dillo1 dir list 8.7 226996 182220 pts/10 S+ 11:01 0:07 ./dillo1 huge page 6.8 165880 141792 pts/10 S+ 11:01 0:09 ./dillo1 back 8.8 226952 184176 pts/10 S+ 11:01 0:17 ./dillo1 forward 6.9 166264 144024 pts/10 S+ 11:01 0:18 ./dillo1 back 8.8 226968 184216 pts/10 S+ 11:01 0:26 ./dillo1 forward 6.9 166264 144060 pts/10 S+ 11:01 0:27 ./dillo1 back -- Cheers Jorge.-

July 3, 2008