- Dillo-dev - lists.mailman3.com

towards a consistent UI

by Johannes.Hofmann＠gmx.de

Hi, -------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:59:32 -0400 > Von: Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> > An: dillo-dev(a)dillo.org > Betreff: Re: [Dillo-dev] towards a consistent UI > Hi, > > Well here's my opinion on these UI points: > > On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 09:50:24PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I really like the way Ctrl-l now just selects the current > > URL in normal mode avoiding a dialog window. > > Me too! > > > In fullscreen mode however, the short switch to normal mode to enter > > the new URL requires a complete redraw of the page contents. > > Also the contents "jumps" down for the time the location bar is > > shown. This can be distracting. > > Find text also causes a redraw. Maybe avoiding the redraw in > both cases is a good solution. Not of high priority unless really > simple to implement. I think the flicker can be avoided, but that won't stop the content from "jumping" in the fullscreen case. > > > Do we really want to kill all uses of dialog windows? We still have > > "Search the Web" anyway. > > No. Some dialog windows are quite OK, and there's no need I can see > to ban them. Agreed > > > Also the location of the "IMG ON/OFF" button seems a bit arbitrary. > > I like it where it is, but agree on that it may find a better place. > Together with the other Panel buttons, my be. > Yes maybe. I will try that when I have time. > > How could a consistent user interface of dillo look like? > > > > Here is my proposal - just to start the discussion: > > > > * Everything is accessible via the menubar and via keyboard > > shortcuts. The shortcuts are shown behind the menu entries. > > Currently the main model is context sensitive popups (right click). > There're some things you can't get from them (e.g. Open File), but > I see no point in duplicating the popup menus from the menu bar. > > About everything being accessible via keyboard shortcuts, I don't > agree. I believe there are simpler ways. For instance if there's a > shortcut for every popup menu entry, there's a need to remember a lot > of shortcut/function pairs. Now if there's a shortcut to popup the > context sensitive menu, and that menu is keyboard operable, IMHO that's > easier to remember/use. > If there's a frequently used operation inside a popup, it may have > its own shortcut. I think the advantage of a menu bar is that it's easily visible, what functionality is available. Advanced users will probabely use shortcuts. But you are right. I forgot about the context menus. The link and image menu only makes sense as a context menu. > > > shortcuts are shown behind the menu entries. > > Agreed. > > > * All shortcuts are configurable. > > Agreed. > > > > > * No more img on/off button. One can use a menubar entry or keyboard > > shortcut instead. > > I prefer the button. It's more visible and gives feedback on its > current status. > Firefox has this functionality somewhere, and a few people know > of it. Ok. > > > * The "Search the Web" button should be just as all the other > > buttons ("Back", "Forw" ...) and be configurable of course. > > Agreed. > With something like: > search_url="<title>,<URL>" in dillorc2, with the first > one being the default for instance. > > > Perhaps a single config option like: > > panel_buttons="back, forw, home, reload, save, stop, book" > > I prefer the boolean way (current model). > I was looking for a way to make the ordering configurable too. > > * The "HTML bugs" button in the status bar is ok. > > It shows the bug-state of the current page. > > Agreed! > > > > * "Search the Web" opens the start page of the selected search > > engine (e.g. google.com) and selects the search text field. > > I'm not sure about that, but it avoids the dialog window and it makes > > clear to which search engine the query is sent. > > The additional page load for the empty search page is only > > required once - then it's cached. > > NO! :-) > > I love avoiding the search page. e.g. with google. > > ...but, yes, I see there may be cases where the native HTML interface > is preferred. Maybe a simple flag can help it: > > search_url="<title>,<URL>[,LoadPage]" > > Thus, with no flag, we get a dialog: > > .------------------------------, > | Search with <title>: | > | [_________________________] | > | | > | [Cancel] [OK] | > '------------------------------' > > and with the "LoadPage" flag, the HTML page. > > This can be implemented quickly! ;-) > Or a plugin, that presents a HTML page with search forms? I'm not sure myself :-) > > > * In fullscreen mode "Ctrl-l" opens a dialog window again. Any > > better solution? > > If the redraw can be avoided, could be, if not, the dialog may be > OK. I haven't used this case too much so I don't *feel* the problem. > Yes, I was also thinking about reintroducing the dialog in this case. Cheers, Johannes -- GMX startet ShortView.de. Hier findest Du Leute mit Deinen Interessen! Jetzt dabei sein: http://www.shortview.de/wasistshortview.php?mc=sv_ext_mf@gmx

Aug. 18, 2008

a list of what dillo2 runs on

by corvid＠lavabit.com

I want to get the status of everything in order to update http://www.dillo.org/Compatibility.html for dillo2. Linux x86 - works DragonFlyBSD - works Linux x86-64 - Justus was and is making snapshots, but I don't know whether he uses them much. Solaris 10 - Justus reported that it was running, but I believe it was just a quick test. OSX - Jorge reports that it works but is currently flaky. *BSD - Some of the mailing list traffic in October was devoted to getting them working. Presumably it would have been mentioned here if they had stopped working since, but... other - no idea. Looking back at what I just wrote, let me clarify that I meant that dillo2-on-osx is flaky, not that Jorge is flaky :)

Aug. 18, 2008

Dillo in OSX

by Johannes.Hofmann＠gmx.de

-------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 15:23:08 -0400 > Von: Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> > An: dillo-dev(a)dillo.org > Betreff: Re: [Dillo-dev] Dillo in OSX > On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 04:59:30PM +0000, corvid wrote: > > I just remembered the bit in png.c that goes: > > > > /* Get and set gamma information. Beware: gamma correction 2.2 will > > only work on PC's. todo: select screen gamma correction for other > > platforms. */ > > if (png_get_gAMA(png_ptr, info_ptr, &gamma)) > > png_set_gamma(png_ptr, 2.2, gamma); > > > > Does that still need fixing up for OSX nowadays? > > I didn't notice anything strange when testing dillo2 native in OSX. > Images looked quite normal. Has anyone else tried it? > > BTW, the GUI under OSX has quite a lot of glitches. Mainly > related with canvas refresh calls being lost, selection being really > weird and the "canvas" area stepping a bit over the button panel. You may try with double buffering disabled. If I remember correctly, there is still an unresolved OSX issue in the fltk code used for double buffering. Cheers, Johannes -- Psssst! Schon das coole Video vom GMX MultiMessenger gesehen? Der Eine f?r Alle: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/messenger03

Aug. 15, 2008

Please help me on this...

by massimo.cesaro＠gmail.com

Hi Jorge, the main source of attraction for Dillo in my case was software efficiency. Actually even more is the suitability to embedded systems. I believe that Dillo could be *the* default browser for a lot of consumer electronics devices as well as mobile internet devices. Finding out the correct mix of featues with a small footprint and a fast execution speed is the real challenge for Dillo; a challenge that could bring this project on the spot light of many embedded developers. My 2 cents. Massimo On Thu, Jul 3, 2008 at 10:19 PM, Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> wrote: > Hi there, > > Looking to a future dillo2 release for the public, I was > wondering about the main drive behind dillo2. > > I mean, in this years of Facebook, WebKit, Flash, propietary > video codecs, etc. what's the main point behind dillo2? > > From the objectives: > > 1.- The democratization of internet information access. > 2.- Personal security and privacy. > 3.- High software efficiency. > > The first one is interesting to analyze along the lines that > dillo allows to search for tons of information spread through the > Internet using low HW requirements and low bandwidth as a dialup. > This is reassuring as dillo efectively enables information > access to any person under such constraints. > > The second one is partly attained by not writing to HD and by a > non-existent scripting support. > > The third one is the one to brag about. ;-) > > > Since some time, the thought that enabling dillo2 as a help > browser could also bring local information (i.e. in HD) closer to > the user came as a powerful one. Having an app. that pops-up in a > second and that's quick, responsive and easy to use is certainly > a strong drive for a person in search of information (that's why > I'd like to see it inside Debian as a help system). > > In the near future, I'd like to have CSS and proper floating > text rendering (DIV element), plus an API as a help browser. > > > There're countries where paying Universitary studies is the > state's burden. If a citizen doesn't want to study there, it's a > choice. I think the same may happen with dillo, once people know > about it, they can choose to use it or not. > > While thinking about it, these comments surprised me: > > "Slashdot | What Do You Want On Future Browsers?" > http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/06/30/1845201 > > (yes, give them a read!) > > (They're talking from a full featured Firefox basis. I > don't know how may of them would like to use something like > dillo) > > > Behind a project like ours, there're two communities: > developers and users. The main factor to push forward the project > is developers and their motivations (in a commercial environment > what pushes the development is the money invested and the profit > margins/strategy sought). > > That's why I'm asking you to help me with your views, needs > visions on the future of dillo2 these days. > > With regard to the user community, I'd love to have some > feedback from them, but I guess we need to release dillo2 first! > > :-) > > > -- > Cheers > Jorge.- > > _______________________________________________ > Dillo-dev mailing list > Dillo-dev(a)dillo.org > http://lists.auriga.wearlab.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dillo-dev > -- - Is there anything I can do? - Computer says "no".

Aug. 14, 2008

Dillo in OSX

by jcid＠dillo.org

On Thu, Aug 14, 2008 at 04:59:30PM +0000, corvid wrote: > I just remembered the bit in png.c that goes: > > /* Get and set gamma information. Beware: gamma correction 2.2 will > only work on PC's. todo: select screen gamma correction for other > platforms. */ > if (png_get_gAMA(png_ptr, info_ptr, &gamma)) > png_set_gamma(png_ptr, 2.2, gamma); > > Does that still need fixing up for OSX nowadays? I didn't notice anything strange when testing dillo2 native in OSX. Images looked quite normal. Has anyone else tried it? BTW, the GUI under OSX has quite a lot of glitches. Mainly related with canvas refresh calls being lost, selection being really weird and the "canvas" area stepping a bit over the button panel. -- Cheers Jorge.-

Aug. 14, 2008

Dillo in OSX

by corvid＠lavabit.com

I just remembered the bit in png.c that goes: /* Get and set gamma information. Beware: gamma correction 2.2 will only work on PC's. todo: select screen gamma correction for other platforms. */ if (png_get_gAMA(png_ptr, info_ptr, &gamma)) png_set_gamma(png_ptr, 2.2, gamma); Does that still need fixing up for OSX nowadays?

Aug. 14, 2008

Dillo in OSX

by jcid＠dillo.org

On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 03:51:46AM +0000, Daniel Mota Leite wrote: > Hi again > > Found the problem... had some old fltk includes in /usr/local > and was installing the cvs to /usr ... so dillo was mixing both > includes and breaking the compile. > > its fixed now, thanks for the help, specially Johannes :) FWIW, the latest CVS should compile without warnings on 64bit. (tested under xubuntu 8.04.1) -- Cheers Jorge.-

Aug. 13, 2008

Dillo in OSX

by higuita7＠yahoo.co.uk

Hi again Found the problem... had some old fltk includes in /usr/local and was installing the cvs to /usr ... so dillo was mixing both includes and breaking the compile. its fixed now, thanks for the help, specially Johannes :) higuita -- Naturally the common people don't want war... but after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in every country. -- Hermann Goering, Nazi and war criminal, 1883-1946

Aug. 13, 2008

towards a consistent UI

by jcid＠dillo.org

Hi, Well here's my opinion on these UI points: On Mon, Aug 04, 2008 at 09:50:24PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > Hi, > > I really like the way Ctrl-l now just selects the current > URL in normal mode avoiding a dialog window. Me too! > In fullscreen mode however, the short switch to normal mode to enter > the new URL requires a complete redraw of the page contents. > Also the contents "jumps" down for the time the location bar is > shown. This can be distracting. Find text also causes a redraw. Maybe avoiding the redraw in both cases is a good solution. Not of high priority unless really simple to implement. > Do we really want to kill all uses of dialog windows? We still have > "Search the Web" anyway. No. Some dialog windows are quite OK, and there's no need I can see to ban them. > Also the location of the "IMG ON/OFF" button seems a bit arbitrary. I like it where it is, but agree on that it may find a better place. Together with the other Panel buttons, my be. > How could a consistent user interface of dillo look like? > > Here is my proposal - just to start the discussion: > > * Everything is accessible via the menubar and via keyboard > shortcuts. The shortcuts are shown behind the menu entries. Currently the main model is context sensitive popups (right click). There're some things you can't get from them (e.g. Open File), but I see no point in duplicating the popup menus from the menu bar. About everything being accessible via keyboard shortcuts, I don't agree. I believe there are simpler ways. For instance if there's a shortcut for every popup menu entry, there's a need to remember a lot of shortcut/function pairs. Now if there's a shortcut to popup the context sensitive menu, and that menu is keyboard operable, IMHO that's easier to remember/use. If there's a frequently used operation inside a popup, it may have its own shortcut. > shortcuts are shown behind the menu entries. Agreed. > * All shortcuts are configurable. Agreed. > > * No more img on/off button. One can use a menubar entry or keyboard > shortcut instead. I prefer the button. It's more visible and gives feedback on its current status. Firefox has this functionality somewhere, and a few people know of it. > * The "Search the Web" button should be just as all the other > buttons ("Back", "Forw" ...) and be configurable of course. Agreed. With something like: search_url="<title>,<URL>" in dillorc2, with the first one being the default for instance. > Perhaps a single config option like: > panel_buttons="back, forw, home, reload, save, stop, book" I prefer the boolean way (current model). > * The "HTML bugs" button in the status bar is ok. > It shows the bug-state of the current page. Agreed! > * "Search the Web" opens the start page of the selected search > engine (e.g. google.com) and selects the search text field. > I'm not sure about that, but it avoids the dialog window and it makes > clear to which search engine the query is sent. > The additional page load for the empty search page is only > required once - then it's cached. NO! :-) I love avoiding the search page. e.g. with google. ...but, yes, I see there may be cases where the native HTML interface is preferred. Maybe a simple flag can help it: search_url="<title>,<URL>[,LoadPage]" Thus, with no flag, we get a dialog: .------------------------------, | Search with <title>: | | [_________________________] | | | | [Cancel] [OK] | '------------------------------' and with the "LoadPage" flag, the HTML page. This can be implemented quickly! ;-) > * In fullscreen mode "Ctrl-l" opens a dialog window again. Any > better solution? If the redraw can be avoided, could be, if not, the dialog may be OK. I haven't used this case too much so I don't *feel* the problem. -- Cheers Jorge.-

Aug. 11, 2008

Dillo in OSX

by Johannes.Hofmann＠gmx.de

-------- Original-Nachricht -------- > Datum: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 03:32:15 +0100 > Von: higuita <higuita(a)GMX.net> > An: "Johannes Hofmann" <Johannes.Hofmann(a)gmx.de> > Betreff: Re: [Dillo-dev] Dillo in OSX > Hi > > On Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:36:08 +0200, "Johannes Hofmann" > <Johannes.Hofmann(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > Hm, maybe some stale fltk2 header files? > > i clean up the root dw2 folder and done a new cvs up && autogen.sh && > configure ... but still it failled > > > You could try to add -E to the failing g++ call above to check the > > preprocessed sources. > > in a command line, i added the -E and it build successful > (no error)... > if i force success on that g++ command, i can continue and > build dillo successful and dillo seems to work fine > > bad fltk install? broken compiler? > should i totally remove the dillo2 and do a totally new checkout? > > :) > > thanks in advance for the help I suspect it is somehow related to your fltk2 installation. Perhaps you have one from your distribution and a self compiled version at the same time? Johannes -- GMX Kostenlose Spiele: Einfach online spielen und Spa? haben mit Pastry Passion! http://games.entertainment.gmx.net/de/entertainment/games/free/puzzle/61691…

Aug. 11, 2008