- Dillo-dev - lists.mailman3.com

Re: [Dillo-dev] ASK FOR HELP:"view source" and edit data to send.

by Madis Janson

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004, FUN TOES wrote: > Some websites can't be visited by dillo.So I think of writing a patch > to view the raw data(including header) from the server and send the raw > data modified manually to the server. > > It is very easy to edit the data to send by modifying the function > Http_send_query().But I do not know how to get the > raw http data from the server.What is the function that I need read > deeply? And I do not think IO_read()is a good > selection.The function send raw data to html parse maybe > a good selection.But I am a newbie,and I have difficuty in finding the > correct function. Would you like help me find it?Appreciation for your > help. > Cache_process_io maybe? It basically gets raw network data and calls functions that will parse HTTP headers / body data. Cache_get_header/Cache_parse_header should deal with headers and iirc Cache_process_queue forwarded data to the image/html parsers...

Jan. 30, 2004

Re: [Dillo-dev] building on AIX, gcc, dillo 0.7.3

by Riccardo

Andreas Schweitzer wrote: > 1) In /usr/lib : Link libpthreads.a to libpthread.a > 2) Don't just call configure but do the following : > export LDFLAGS='-lpthreads' ; ./configure > 3) Apply one of the attached patches. If you use 0.7.3, try the > patch against configure (configure.diff), if you run CVS use > the patch against configure.in (configure.in.diff3) > > Note to all: the latter patch should be considered for general > inclusion ! > > Please test, as I have VERY limited ways of testing that. I will try the patch way since that is probably the most general way to fix dillo. I am using 0.7.3 and unfortunately the patch gets rejected (using patch -i configure.diff) I will get now cvs version and try that with the other patch. -Ric PS: and yes, I subscribed to the list, since I have to report some problems on Solaris too... I thought this is the best way, hoping in a low volume, high-profile list.

Jan. 27, 2004

Re: [Dillo-dev]Buggy HTML, the new parser and webmasters

by Kelson Vibber

>On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 08:53:17PM -0800, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote: > > "Creating an HTML browser and a Web browser are two different things. The > > first one just needs to do the job right and parse HTML correctly, the > other > > one just has to be able to render web pages in any possible mean. These are > > two different beasts and targets --unfortunately." For some other commentary on the effects of buggy HTML, you might be interested in some recent postings on Surfin' Safari: http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/hyatt/archives/2004_01.html Dave Hyatt has a series of posts on how to best handle XML errors, and he talks about the difficulty of getting WebCore to handle all the broken HTML filling the web today. One of his key points: "The #1 reason that HTML pages render incorrectly in alternate browsers is because of differences in error handling and recovery." He describes his experiences trying to make Safari handle broken HTML the same way IE does (much as IE originally had to handle broken HTML the same way Netscape did). His main point is about XML error handling (specifically, if all XML browsers insist on well-formed documents from the start, no one will have to deal with the nightmare of different error-correction schemes), but he has some interesting comments on dealing with broken HTML. Kelson Vibber www.hyperborea.org

Jan. 27, 2004

Re: [Dillo-dev]Buggy HTML, the new parser and webmasters

by Thorben Thuermer

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 14:01:14 +0100 Andreas Schweitzer <Andreas.Schweitzer(a)hs.uni-hamburg.de> wrote: > On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 06:36:27PM -0800, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote: [...] > > So, the reason I close the form outside that table is because I am trying to > > go around bugs on Netscape 4 and IE. As you can see, the cell that holds the > > form has a black background color. If I close the form inside that cell, IE > > and NS4 create a new paragraph inside that cell, even if my code never asked > > for it. And that looks ugly. > [...] > > So, the "trick" that many web developers of my time use a lot (see: > > hand-written HTML), is to close the </FORM> outside of tables or places > > where it screws up the design. It is a well-known trick, and so your new > > parser is going to meet it a number of times in the future. I suggest you http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/forms/extraspace.html (maybe forward this?) i had that problem myself... personally i went for the CSS solution, as dillo (non-css capable) doesn't have that "feature" anyway. when playing with the more more less valid options, i even found some combinations where *mozilla* would NOT display the form AT ALL, while IE still did. Greetings, Thorbem Thuermer

Jan. 27, 2004

RE: [Dillo-dev] worried about dillo (cathedral and bazaar)

by Indan Zupancic

> A few months ago a few individual started submitting patches against the > advices of the core developers. The features were sometimes interesting, > sometimes not. The code style did not integrate well the rest of Dillo's > code. (not to mention the form in which the patches were presented). Oh that's really great, to hear such things now instead of when such feedback was wanted. 1. I had never any advice from any of the core developers, I was simply ignored. Maybe I should have taken the hint sooner, sorry for that. 2. As I said, I had no feedback, so really don't know what you thought about the code style. Perhaps I didn't make use of the wonderful CCC nightmare construction, so you're right, my code style didn't integrate well with the rest of at least Dillo's IO code. 3. Form of patches? I used the recommended diff options. Other than that, I could have split up the patches into smaller ones, but no one asked for that so why even bother. > The maintainers of Dillo decided these contributions were not good for > Dillo, for many reasons. While you might disagree, similar decisions were > made during the development of Dillo, and the result is the great browser we > have now. We have the focus and we have a plan. Pardon me, but the main problem is that you don't communicate, at least not with me and many other patch makers (Kiyo, anyone? See mailinglist archive for more examples). I have no problems with rejections, but I can tell you that silent rejections can be rather frustrating. People spend time writing a patch for Dillo, they try to improve it, and you in return simply ignore them. Rejecting a patch is unfortunately something you must do most of the times, but at least explain what your problem is with it. Don't ignore it and then afterwards say what you just said please. Dillo has some really ugly code in it, but if you say that loud and clear you will be insulted and spit at. If you try to clean it up a bit you'd be ignored. You may have a focus and a plan, but oh so nice of you to share it with all of us. Last time I looked on the site one of the main focus was to get money. > Not to take control to see the one feature they like be included. Https is a feature that not only I like to have, but is an essential feature for a browser. I never tried to push it, if you thought so then you understood it wrong. I only tried to convince why my way of implementing it is better than some other ways, but that discussion died an early death by lack of any feedback. I also didn't try to push the "united Dillo" patch through someone's throat, it was discussed on the mailinglist and the conclusion was that it may be a useful feature, but that it shouldn't be the default behaviour. I don't know what one feature the IO.c cleanup patch tried to push, I can only imagine. > I understand how a Linus Torvald saying no to a patch for Linux might induce > more respect to young coders than for a smaller project like Dillo. But you > should learn to repect Jorge, Sebatian, Livio, and the others contributors > (and not only the so-called "core developer"). These people put a lot of > their energy and sweat into Dillo over the years, because that's what it > takes to make a successful project. As I said above, you don't even bother saying no. And I do respect people, but I can't help it if criticism on _code_ is takes as a personal attack. I honestly never expected that, must be my naivete. You are the ones that are insulting people, stabbing them in their back when they turn away, with the official announcement and emails like this. I can only speak for myself, but from my point of view I was totally ignored, and when I gave up and went away, I get one insult after to other thrown after me. Hidden in general speak so that you can still claim to be respectful, with your mud dirty hands hidden behind your back. > Dillo is an Open Source project, and anybody whom's not happy with the > development policy could start his own project with it. And he'll be > welcome. But nobody did so far, and I take it as a confirmation that one > needs more than being vocal in mailing list to maintain a project like > Dillo. It takes dedication and talent. This is really a low comment. If all went as you make it seem then you could perhaps say this, but you chronically ignore any outside efforts. I was encouraged by the text on the website to contribute to Dillo. Personally I missed https, so I wrote a https patch. I first wanted to make a https dpi, but that turned out to be rather hard, at least it couldn't be done very elegantly with a dpi, so I added it to Dillo. That got me rolling and I also started doing some more, like cleaning up io.c. I really start repeating myself, but as I said, I had no feedback at all, so in the end gave up. Now you make it seem like I'm not happy with the development policy, but how must I know what it is? If I follow the information on Dillo's website then I did follow Dillo's development policy. I was willing to spend a lot of time in Dillo, also in the future, I didn't gave up so soon as most other patch makers, so I don't see how I was lacking in dedication. Now you say that because I'm not happy with a for me unknown policy, I could have started my own project, while all I wanted was to improve Dillo... And because I didn't that suddenly means that you are dedicated and have talent? May I also remind you that the mailinglist is the Dillo developer mailinglist, so actually the only communication way for outside developers? And you also seem to imply that I'm only vocal on the mailinglist, ignoring the fact that most of those mails are patch or Dillo code related. Only way I'm too vocal is that I write damn long emails somehow, but I really can't help that. > "The main job of a maintainer is to say No", said Linus Torvald. That's > what happened. Nothing more: people were not happy to see their patch > rejected and they tried to push back. Dillo's still active, and not less > than it was before: do not confuse bubbling in the mailing list with > activity. Out-of-control patch submissions is not equivalent to improvement. That is simply a lie. That is NOT what happened. What happened is that you ignored all patches and almost all our emails. And then suddenly out of thin air post a very aggressive insulting official announcement from the "core developers". If you disagree then you live in another universe or are talking about other people than Frank and me. If that bubbling on the mailinglist had gotten more attention, Dillo could by now have utf-8, https, ftp, frames, tabs, I18N and a lot other things that I can't think of right now, and probably even more because less people would be scared away. Nice to call it "out-of-control" patch submission, perhaps you should control it? Maybe giving a short reply to such patches like "no, we don't like this, don't submit such stupid patches" would cure the problem? Maybe a healthy outside curiosity and patch submission is indeed evil, but somehow I doubt that... Also to compare how Dillo developers say no (by ignoring it) with Linus Torvals' way of saying no (actually saying "no" with explanation) is a bit lame. > The people who made Dillo are still there, and new contributors are > joining. Those whom wanted their features included so badly prefered to > leave rather than change their attitude and work the issues. Makes me really wonder who here really has an attitude problem. First you more or less demand that we leave, and now you say that we prefer to leave instead of doing something about our attitude, while your attitude is the one that should change. Good start would be to grow up and handle criticism on code sanely instead of handling it as personal attacks, bad attitude and what else. In the time that I followed the mailinglist there was no one that tried to push his code into Dillo, all they did was implement features they would like to have and shared it with the rest. > I guess we're back to normal: a sane and nice working environment. Please > keep contributing. You made it very clear that you in reality don't appreciate real contributions, good luck with keeping up the facade. But everyone can read the mailinglist archive and see for their self how it really went. Unfortunately most won't and will trust what you say, lucky you. I may be wrong and maybe there is active development going on, but if so, it all happens in the background, hidden from us. All we see is a rather silent mailinglist and very little CVS activity for quite a while now. I really hope that the "core developers" will see the light once, but I don't have too much hope. I'm aware that it's impossible to reason with you, so I won't even try. That is also why I ignored the announcement, it was just a flamebait. Good luck, also with Dillo, Indan

Jan. 27, 2004

Re: [Dillo-dev] building on AIX, gcc, dillo 0.7.3

by Jorge Arellano Cid

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Andreas Schweitzer wrote: > Hi, > > Since I'm still not sure if you are subscribed I send it to you > and the list :-) > > > configure reports: > > checking target system type... rs6000-ibm-aix4.2.1.0 > > > > as far the system concerns. > > > > The error during configure is: > > checking whether threads work with -pthread... no. Now we will try some > > libraries. > > checking for library containing pthread_create... no > > configure: WARNING: *** No pthreads found. *** > > I have a slightly later version of the AIX native threads library. > And as you hinted in your previous mail, the name of the library > is slightly different. (libpthread.a vs. libpthreads.a). However, > on *my* system, both libraries exist as a link and point to a third > file. > > > gcc -v yields: > > Reading specs from > > /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/rs6000-ibm-aix4.2.1.0/2.95.3/specs > > gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release) > > Too bad that your version of gcc does not know the -pthread > option and react accordingly. > At least for relatively recent versions, gcc can be configured > to be called with -pthread and do the OS-correct thing. > > Anyways, so far this doesn't really help you :-). Here are possible > solutions : > > 1) In /usr/lib : Link libpthreads.a to libpthread.a > 2) Don't just call configure but do the following : > export LDFLAGS='-lpthreads' ; ./configure > 3) Apply one of the attached patches. If you use 0.7.3, try the > patch against configure (configure.diff), if you run CVS use > the patch against configure.in (configure.in.diff3) > > Note to all: the latter patch should be considered for general > inclusion ! > > Please test, as I have VERY limited ways of testing that. Excellent Andreas! Please let me know when Riccardo confirms the patch to work on his system to include it in CVS. Cheers Jorge.-

Jan. 27, 2004

Re: [Dillo-dev] building on AIX, gcc, dillo 0.7.3

by Andreas Schweitzer

Hi, Since I'm still not sure if you are subscribed I send it to you and the list :-) > configure reports: > checking target system type... rs6000-ibm-aix4.2.1.0 > > as far the system concerns. > > The error during configure is: > checking whether threads work with -pthread... no. Now we will try some > libraries. > checking for library containing pthread_create... no > configure: WARNING: *** No pthreads found. *** I have a slightly later version of the AIX native threads library. And as you hinted in your previous mail, the name of the library is slightly different. (libpthread.a vs. libpthreads.a). However, on *my* system, both libraries exist as a link and point to a third file. > gcc -v yields: > Reading specs from > /usr/local/lib/gcc-lib/rs6000-ibm-aix4.2.1.0/2.95.3/specs > gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release) Too bad that your version of gcc does not know the -pthread option and react accordingly. At least for relatively recent versions, gcc can be configured to be called with -pthread and do the OS-correct thing. Anyways, so far this doesn't really help you :-). Here are possible solutions : 1) In /usr/lib : Link libpthreads.a to libpthread.a 2) Don't just call configure but do the following : export LDFLAGS='-lpthreads' ; ./configure 3) Apply one of the attached patches. If you use 0.7.3, try the patch against configure (configure.diff), if you run CVS use the patch against configure.in (configure.in.diff3) Note to all: the latter patch should be considered for general inclusion ! Please test, as I have VERY limited ways of testing that. Cheers Andreas -- **************************** NEW ADDRESS ****************************** Hamburger Sternwarte Universitaet Hamburg Gojenbergsweg 112 Tel. ++49 40 42891 4016 D-21029 Hamburg, Germany Fax. ++49 40 42891 4198

Jan. 27, 2004

[Dillo-dev]Buggy HTML, the new parser and webmasters

by Andreas Schweitzer

Hi all, First : my apologees for a rather large mail ! Now, that the bug counter is in dillo, and with Madis' last post, it's a good coincidence that I just tried to convince webmasters of 3 sites I usually visit to fix their HTML. From 2 I haven't heard a thing (and they are not even THAT huge), but from www.osnews.com I got a reply very fast - and it turned out to be an extremely interesting conversation. I asked her for permission to forward it to the list, and here it goes. I sorted it chronolically, with some comments of mine in between. I omitted my first mail - it was just the HTML warnings of the new parser along with a kind request to fix the page. WARNING, BIG REMINDER : Don't flame her - it's not about this individual site, it's about general practice and the general attitude towards standards ... After all, the e-mail conversation started in privat and she didn't have in mind that a lot of people would read it. And I think she deserves credit for taking her time and lay out her arguments and explaining everything in a very friendly manner. On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 06:36:27PM -0800, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote: > Hello Andreas, > thanks for the heads up. > I looked at the error messages, and I know what is wrong. Please note that > all forms and tables ARE closing in the code, it is just that your parser is > not realizing it. > You see, I start the form inside a table's cell, but I close the form > outside the table. This is not 100% valid code, but it is like that for a > reason. This is causing your parser to spit all these errors (all the errors > below the form error are just a side effect of the first error). > So, the reason I close the form outside that table is because I am trying to > go around bugs on Netscape 4 and IE. As you can see, the cell that holds the > form has a black background color. If I close the form inside that cell, IE > and NS4 create a new paragraph inside that cell, even if my code never asked > for it. And that looks ugly. Up to here, you could argue a lot about how to design a web page, to not wanting to dictate how the page looks and leave it to the browser, to us CSS and whatnot. With enough arguing one could even convince this very author to change (not likely though, see below). BUT : the interesting part comes now : > So, the "trick" that many web developers of my time use a lot (see: > hand-written HTML), is to close the </FORM> outside of tables or places > where it screws up the design. It is a well-known trick, and so your new > parser is going to meet it a number of times in the future. I suggest you The above is frightening .... > fix your parser to understand "non-normal" code like that, and realize that > the form does close as expected. Of course, for us that's not fixing but breaking ;-) .... Here is now my reply (rather long, and you will know the arguments if you follow the lamiling list) : > Hi Eugenia, > > Thanks for the reply and explanation. > First of all : I am not a core developer of that browser - just > a steady user and occasional contributor. > > However, if this mail came from one of the developers or if I told > them to follow your advice, you would either be ignored or flamed ;-) ... > I will try to do neither. So please do keep in mind that my response > is meant as a friendly food for thought or possibly some constructive > criticism. > > Discussions about fixing broken HTML do come up on the mailing list > from time to time. And the consent is to just not do it - for a number > of reasons (I probably will forget some). > - what good are standards if nobody conforms to them, and instead an > own (not very strict !) psuedo-standard develops ? > - It's not a browser's job to guess what the author wanted to have displayed. > - It costs man-power and CPU cycles to detect and fix broken HTML. > We prefer to spend the man-power on developing something useful instead > of broekn HTML-detection code. And we prefer to give the CPU cycles > to the user (BTW, dillo is the snappiest grafic browser I know - maybe Links2) > > All right, but we already detect the problem of your page, you may say :-) .. > and indeed, the *old* parser was closing out of order. In fact, I could > configure dillo to still use the old parser and your page will look great. > BUT : then other pages break :-( - they have buggy HTML, too. And there, > closing tags with the new method is better then with the old method. > So, in chosing which parser to use, the default is the standards complying > method of interpreting HTML (also, the old parser was buggy and not quite > right). Oh - and if we care about the web sites we also tell/told the > authors if these other pages that they have buggy code ! > Now, why then are Mozilla or the other browsers displaying all correctly ? > Probably because they did spend man-power and CPU-cycles to guess what the > author wanted. > I had to smile when you wrote, "Fix your parser to understand non-normal HTML", > because I thought, "That's not fixing it, that's breaking it". > > When I design web pages, I usually make them pass (if possible) > validator.w3.org and if they look ugly in ancient - and buggy ! - browsers, > bad luck ! I realize, my pages are nothing professional like your site, > but still, is it worth to support buggy broswers ? How many visitors > are actually using Netscape 4 ? Probably more than dillo, but the comparison > should be non-buggy vs. buggy browsers. About IE - are all versions > of IE bahving like this ? Then my argument would be, why support MS's > interpretation of standards ? (and outside of HTML you probably will > agrre ;-) ... after all, don't we all know lots of alternatives and fight > for them ?) You as a professional web site probably do have to support > buggy broswers, but the question still may be asked. > > Finally, some links to archived previous discussions : > http://news.gmane.org/group/gmane.comp.web.dillo.devel/thread=1324/force_lo… > (if you don't want to read all of it, read at least Eric Gaudet's posts) > And here is the explanation of the new parser : > http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.dillo.devel/1434 > > By now, you know that the other problematic site was slashdot ;-) ... > (among others !) which displays ok with the current parser - but also is > buggy HTML - and they know it ! > > And before I forget : Yes, I saw a lot of pages that look quite ugly > with the strict interpretation. And I also only tell the webmasters > of pages for which I care :-) > > And as a really last word : the new parser may indeed have room for > improvement, and some more closing may indeed be possible as a compromise, > BUT, as I said, I'm not a core developer. > > As I said in the beginning, this was meant as food for thought, not flaming. > If you should decide to change HTML after all, that would be fantastic. If > not, hopefully I at least did explain myself well. > > Cheers > Andreas And here is her 2nd answer: > Thank you for the email Andreas, > however, I must say that the code in that form won't change. IE has more > than 70,000 viewers daily on osnews, and Dillo has about 20. So, as you can > understand, being compatible with the broken IE is more important to us, > even if that means that we have to not be validated. In fact, not being > validated, it is a given for big sites, because in order to give a > specific/certain look, you have to do tricks like the one I described to you > in order to render the same on all big browsers. Now you could, of course, go and say "screw this site" .... but the following is at least ineresting food for thought. I don't fully agree, but I can understand the point of view. > Also, please put in mind: my husband is in the browser business. He is a web > browser developer for OpenWave.com among his team. They don't have the > specific problem of out-of-order-tag-closing because they know that many > sites are like that, so they have to go around this problem, OR they won't > be able to sell their browser to anyone. > > This is a market. Even for the free Dillo. Dillo's job is not create the > most "correct" parser in the world, but to render most sites in the world. > If the first was true, then Dillo is nothing but an "Amaya", a test, a proof > of concept. But if the second is true, then Dillo is really a usable by > people browser. > > So, depends what its developers want. If they want a proof of concept, no > problem with me, osnews and most other sites won't work. If they want a > browser that works for most people, they need to sit down and go around > buggy HTML (created by either amateur developers or from developers that > they had to go around bugs). For example, IE even goes around this bug <a/> > and understands that the developer wanted to write </a> instead. Big > browsers do such error checking and go around buggy HTML, because it is the > only way they can be widely used. In my case of course, it was me that I had > to go around their bugs. > > So, it all depends what the Dillo people want. It is not what I, or you, > want, but what their real targets are: proof of concept project or a real > USABLE browser. > > If that was me, it would have being the second. And it ain't my fault that > IE has these bugs that I have to go around, it is my job to make sure my > page renders well for most of my readers. :) > > Rgds, > Eugenia > > --- > Editor in Chief > http://www.OSNews.com When I asked her for permission to forward her mails to the list she added another intersting quote : On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 08:53:17PM -0800, Eugenia Loli-Queru wrote: > You can go ahead and quote some of the stuff I said. > BTW, I discussed the matter with my husband (who as I said is in the browser > business) and he told me: > > "Creating an HTML browser and a Web browser are two different things. The > first one just needs to do the job right and parse HTML correctly, the other > one just has to be able to render web pages in any possible mean. These are > two different beasts and targets --unfortunately." > > I am afraid this is the reality of any product though, not just browsers... > Reality market... :( > > Eugenia > Bottom line : it may be possible to convince individual sites to fix their HTML, but what about really big sites that use these ... err ... "workarounds" ? Do they really care how a little browser interprets their HTML ? They care if HTML looks good in IE - reality sucks. It's extremely frustrating. And even more so, when I have to look at garbeled pages ;-) .... The situation may improve over time when more and more sites use CSS and don't have to rely on such dirty formating tricks - but then again, how many bugs has IE there, that authors want/will work around ? And to repeat my reminder : Don't flame her - it's not about this individual site, it's about general practice and the general attitude towards standards ... And again I think she deserves credit for taking her time and lay out her arguments and explaining everything in a very friendly manner. Cheers, Andreas -- **************************** NEW ADDRESS ****************************** Hamburger Sternwarte Universitaet Hamburg Gojenbergsweg 112 Tel. ++49 40 42891 4016 D-21029 Hamburg, Germany Fax. ++49 40 42891 4198

Jan. 27, 2004

RE: [Dillo-dev] worried about dillo (cathedral and bazaar)

by Eric GAUDET

-- En reponse de "[Dillo-dev] worried about dillo (cathedral and bazaar)" de linux seaq, le 26-Jan-2004 : ... > I recently re-read the cathedral and bazar paper, and thought to my > self that dillo was heading in another direction. It seems to me that > there's no intention to receive help from others, or get into account > other's contributions. I believed that the main force behind a project > weren't its main developers but its users and contributors. That mix > made projects grow and grow. And dillo rejected that "magical" force. > > I'm just writing these thoughts, because as i said, i'm worried about > dillo. ... I wanted to react to that now the dust has settled. Dillo is back to normal. Even an (arguably) small project like Dillo takes a lot of time and energy to maintain, to develop and to get right. A few months ago a few individual started submitting patches against the advices of the core developers. The features were sometimes interesting, sometimes not. The code style did not integrate well the rest of Dillo's code. (not to mention the form in which the patches were presented). The maintainers of Dillo decided these contributions were not good for Dillo, for many reasons. While you might disagree, similar decisions were made during the development of Dillo, and the result is the great browser we have now. We have the focus and we have a plan. Of course Dillo is not finished, and your contributions are still welcome. Countless contributions have been made since dillo was started, and the mailing list has always been courteous and people helpful. Dillo is that good now not only thanks to the core developers, but also to many contributors helping with the spirit of being part of a group. Not to take control to see the one feature they like be included. I understand how a Linus Torvald saying no to a patch for Linux might induce more respect to young coders than for a smaller project like Dillo. But you should learn to repect Jorge, Sebatian, Livio, and the others contributors (and not only the so-called "core developer"). These people put a lot of their energy and sweat into Dillo over the years, because that's what it takes to make a successful project. Dillo is an Open Source project, and anybody whom's not happy with the development policy could start his own project with it. And he'll be welcome. But nobody did so far, and I take it as a confirmation that one needs more than being vocal in mailing list to maintain a project like Dillo. It takes dedication and talent. "The main job of a maintainer is to say No", said Linus Torvald. That's what happened. Nothing more: people were not happy to see their patch rejected and they tried to push back. Dillo's still active, and not less than it was before: do not confuse bubbling in the mailing list with activity. Out-of-control patch submissions is not equivalent to improvement. The people who made Dillo are still there, and new contributors are joining. Those whom wanted their features included so badly prefered to leave rather than change their attitude and work the issues. I guess we're back to normal: a sane and nice working environment. Please keep contributing. Best, Eric PS: even if you're not a coder you can contribute, by doing bug reports for instance.

Jan. 27, 2004

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: https dpi

by Madis Janson

On Mon, 3 Nov 2003, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > On Sat, 25 Oct 2003, Madis Janson wrote: > > > Also, there seems to be one process for one connection, which makes hard > > to implement SSL session cache. > > Yes, that happens with dpi filters. The idea in this case is to > have an http dpi that's able to handle several connections at the > same time (like the downloads dpi). That is: a dpi server instead > of a dpi filter. With that scheme session cache is easy to > implement. > > (and BTW much easier for the developer because he can arrange > things much more freely than when patching inside dillo). > > > content-type > > (as above). > > The https dpi would need to listen the HTTP stream and so has > access to the content-type sent by the remote https server. > (http://article.gmane.org/gmane.comp.web.dillo.devel/1407) if someone would create non-ssl dpi proxy plugin (that just makes http requests), i will add the ssl part to it (i have working ssl proxy code, which currently works using a patched dillo).

Jan. 27, 2004