June 2009 - Dillo-dev - lists.mailman3.com

dillo 2.1]

by corvid＠lavabit.com

Jorge wrote: > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:01:12PM +0300, Tomas Rimkus wrote: > > > > Accidentally sent to corvid only. Forwarding to dillo-dev. > > > > > > > It seems whoever designed the new website theme has no idea what > > > > > READABILITY means... It looks like someone just used some stupid online > > > > > color picker, which just picks some similar colors to the one user > > > > > chooses. The old website looked MUCH MUCH better. Imho, it's a > > > > > regression... > > > > > > > > Hm I like the new design, but I agree that readability might be a problem. > > > > Let's see what other say. > > > > > > I still find visited text to be hard to read, but I know I should > > > break down and get a new display... > > > > > > > I wonder if you are the only dillo user with old display... BTW, I am using > > pretty new LCD display and still find it hard to read. > > OK, we also had readability concerns but we agreed that it was > enough. OTOH some people bashed the old design as prehistoric! > > After all it's a matter of taste. > Usability is a different thing. Maybe you need higher contrast > to see clearly (I suffer with white backgrounds). Do you find > this one better to read [1]? > > What do other people think about the new web design? > Aesthetically and from a readability point of view. > Please comment. > > > [1] http://www.dillo.org/test/website/dillo2.2.html The test page's visited text is easier for me to read than the home page's visited text. Does anyone know what the contemporary way is to show the information in Plans.html? I remember ball.gif being ubiquitous in html in 1995 -- in stratigraphy it is regarded as a valuable 'index fossil', often found together with a variety of brightly-colored line.gifs and blink tags -- but I don't know what to do about it.

June 24, 2009

dillo 2.1]

by jcid＠dillo.org

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 11:01:12PM +0300, Tomas Rimkus wrote: > > Accidentally sent to corvid only. Forwarding to dillo-dev. > > > > > It seems whoever designed the new website theme has no idea what > > > > READABILITY means... It looks like someone just used some stupid online > > > > color picker, which just picks some similar colors to the one user > > > > chooses. The old website looked MUCH MUCH better. Imho, it's a > > > > regression... > > > > > > Hm I like the new design, but I agree that readability might be a problem. > > > Let's see what other say. > > > > I still find visited text to be hard to read, but I know I should > > break down and get a new display... > > > > I wonder if you are the only dillo user with old display... BTW, I am using > pretty new LCD display and still find it hard to read. OK, we also had readability concerns but we agreed that it was enough. OTOH some people bashed the old design as prehistoric! After all it's a matter of taste. Usability is a different thing. Maybe you need higher contrast to see clearly (I suffer with white backgrounds). Do you find this one better to read [1]? What do other people think about the new web design? Aesthetically and from a readability point of view. Please comment. [1] http://www.dillo.org/test/website/dillo2.2.html -- Cheers Jorge.-

June 24, 2009

dillo-2.1.tar.bz2

by jcid＠dillo.org

On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 10:27:20AM +0200, Michal Nowak wrote: > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 9:02 PM, Jorge Arellano Cid<jcid(a)dillo.org> wrote: > > [...] > > ?In a nutshell (from my point of view): > > > > ? * fltk2 is not officially released, and maybe never will. > > ? * dillo2 uses fltk2, and this creates pressure to package it. > > ? * Distros have a policy against statically-linked binaries. > > Definitely agree. The first and the second one can be somehow > sorted out and fltk2 pushed to distribution, the last one is blocker. > > [...] > You greatly outlined the problems with having Dillo-2 in distribution; > the problem is FLTK2. While watching at "changes" in FLTK2 snapshots > I can't thing that the development is stalled or even stopped. You surely refer to the 1.3 series because FLTK2 is quite stalled. e.g. (nov 2008 version against current) diff -pru fltk-2.0.x-r6525 fltk-2.0.x-r6786|less /* Only whitespace and an email address change here! */ FLTK-1.3 is the active one (a fact recognized by Bill Spitzak). > > I understand that my proposal won't be popular but switching from > FLTK2 is necessary - we hardly have FLTK2 in distributions (read: no > Dillo-2 in distribution) and that's shortening our user base. I agree on the shortened user base, but the proposal to switch to FLTK-1.3 is the probable course of action. > How hard it would be to rewrite/port Dillo-2 to FLTK-1.3? > > (I see that the speed of v1.3 development is nothing exciting, but > from what I read months ago they at least plan to have a release > ever.) This branch has advanced a lot. It has less open bugs than FLTK-2.0 [1], an active set of developers, and they've devoted plenty of time to good documentation. > While looking at the devel cycle of Dillo - two releases per year - > I believe this porting should be mid-term goal. Unless we wanna > spend another year out of mainstream distributions. (And frankly: > even with Dillo-2 based on FLTK-1.3 we are quite far from Dillo-2 > in distribution...) Some months ago I had long emails with FLTK developers regarding this point. FLTK-1.3 may have a release in the middle of 2009 and they may even consider a compatibility layer for FLTK-2.0 apps (for them, it would be a most appealing assset to have FLTK-2.0 apps. compile with FLTK-1.3 painlessly). Now, given the effort estimation by corvid, I'd go with a native port as soon as FLTK-1.3 is released (unless the compatibility layer is there, or porting turns out to be a major endeavour). If they succeed in an official release, chances are we'll have FLTK-1.3 in distros when we finish our port. BTW, their advice is to wait for the first release and then decide what to do. [1] http://fltk.org/roadmap.php -- Cheers Jorge.-

June 23, 2009

dillo 2.1

by jcid＠dillo.org

On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 05:24:28PM +0000, corvid wrote: > Johannes wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 05:12:07PM +0300, Tomas R wrote: > > > [...] > > > 6) http://www.binaryworld.skynet.lt/DUK.html > > > If we use one link with fragment identifier in the page, all the others > > > are marked as visited too. > > > > Not sure how this should be handled correctly. Someone will have to > > check the specs. > > I'm not aware of anything in the HTML spec on it, at least. Dillo shows pages already in memory in visited color. That way you can easily tell an in-memory link from one that's yet to be downloaded. This is very useful when switching from online to offline mode (e.g. dialup). IOW those links are rendered as visited because they're cached. In the same page (answers section), unvisited links are rendered as such. -- Cheers Jorge.-

June 23, 2009

Re: Dillo 2.1 questions

by jcid＠dillo.org

Hi, On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 02:33:51PM +0200, Donjan Rodic wrote: > Hello Jorge > > First off, Dillo 2.1 is awesome. It got exactly the features I hoped for Good! > and isn't noticably more resource hungry. In fact it has half the memory footprint of the dillo1 series. http://www.dillo.org/memory.html > Too bad it doesn't support column layouts in CSS yet... can we expect > this in the next release? I hope! The column layout problem is mainly a lack of implementation of floating elements in the textblock. it is one of the top priorities for the next release (if not the topmost). We'll work on it and try to fix it. We're yet to find out how much work it will be. > One thing I can't figure out are the available keybinding commands. For > example, how would I call "scroll-one-screen-up", which I'd like to bind > to <Shift>Space. Similar to how Space scrolls one screen down. > Also "open-link-in-new-tab" to <Ctrl>"left-mouse-click"... > I couldn't find any documentation on such commands, except for the keys > listed in .dillo/keysrc. You should have an installation-wide keysrc file along with dillorc. If not, just read http://www.dillo.org/keysrc. AFAIS, we haven't included that keybinding, but will probably exist in the source repository soon. Maybe: coarse-scroll-down, coarse-scroll-up, fine-scroll-down, fine-scroll-up > Another topic: is the adblock.txt in the .dillo folder supposed to work? > Is there any recent documentation on this? No, AFAIK it isn't in the release. I'd really like to have it in the next release though. -- Cheers Jorge.-

June 23, 2009

css font-size and nested tables

by Johannes.Hofmann＠gmx.de

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 05:13:29PM +0300, Tomas R wrote: > On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:37:11 +0200 > Johannes Hofmann <Johannes.Hofmann(a)gmx.de> wrote: > > > Oh well. Just found this here: > > > > http://developer.mozilla.org/En/Fixing_Table_Inheritance_in_Quirks_Mode > > > > Not sure whether I want to do anything about it. > > Adding quirks in browsers just causes web developers to add quirks to > > fix them and so on... > > > > For now, as a workaround font_min_size could be set to 10-12 by > default (anything lower than 10 is unreadable), but not sure how this > will effect some websites, where text is intentionally hidden by > setting its size to negative or very low value. To simulate the behaviour of other browsers, you can add table, caption {font-size: medium} to your ~/.dillo/style.css for now. Maybe we should add this to the FAQ? Cheers, Johannes

June 23, 2009

css font-size and nested tables

by jcid＠dillo.org

On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 01:37:11PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > Oh well. Just found this here: > > http://developer.mozilla.org/En/Fixing_Table_Inheritance_in_Quirks_Mode > > Not sure whether I want to do anything about it. > Adding quirks in browsers just causes web developers to add quirks to > fix them and so on... Well, it's a quirk... and we already have the font_min_size to tackle the problem. I'd prefer to focus our scarce development time into issues deemed high priority (e.g. the column rendering in textblock). -- Cheers Jorge.-

June 23, 2009

dillo 2.1

by sandshrew＠gmail.com

One more thing that I forgot to mention in the first message is text wrapping in textareas. By default unlike all the popular browsers dillo does not wrap text in textareas. Actually discussion about this was started in this mailing list some time ago but unexpectedly finished after corvid pointed out that according to the standards it's up to the browser to decide whether to wrap text or not. Maybe, if someone thinks it's better when text is not wrapped, this could be made optional? Would it be easy to implement this setting with fltk?

June 23, 2009

css font-size and nested tables

by sandshrew＠gmail.com

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 13:37:11 +0200 Johannes Hofmann <Johannes.Hofmann(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Oh well. Just found this here: > > http://developer.mozilla.org/En/Fixing_Table_Inheritance_in_Quirks_Mode > > Not sure whether I want to do anything about it. > Adding quirks in browsers just causes web developers to add quirks to > fix them and so on... > For now, as a workaround font_min_size could be set to 10-12 by default (anything lower than 10 is unreadable), but not sure how this will effect some websites, where text is intentionally hidden by setting its size to negative or very low value.

June 23, 2009

css font-size and nested tables

by Johannes.Hofmann＠gmx.de

Oh well. Just found this here: http://developer.mozilla.org/En/Fixing_Table_Inheritance_in_Quirks_Mode Not sure whether I want to do anything about it. Adding quirks in browsers just causes web developers to add quirks to fix them and so on... Cheers, Johannes On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 01:16:05PM +0200, Johannes Hofmann wrote: > Hi, > > trying to find the reason for the tiny fonts in gmail, I found the > following: > > <html> > <head> > <style type="text/css"> > td {font-family: arial; font-size:50%} > </style> > </head> > <body> > > <table> > <tr> <td> foo bar </td> </tr> > <tr> <td> <table> <tr> <td>foo bar</td> </tr> </table> </td> </tr> > </table> > > </body> > </html> > > is rendered with the same font size in both lines in firefox, > konqueror, and opera. > Can someone enlighten me why the nested <td> does not decrease the > font size again in the second line? > > If I change the CSS to act on <table> instead of <td> it works as > expected. > > Cheers, > Johannes > > _______________________________________________ > Dillo-dev mailing list > Dillo-dev(a)dillo.org > http://lists.auriga.wearlab.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dillo-dev

June 23, 2009