May 2003 - Dillo-dev - lists.mailman3.com

Re: [Dillo-dev] dillo-0.7.2 release

by Joe Hill

On Sat, 03 May 2003 09:30:35 +0300 Jyri Jokinen <shared(a)surffi.net> wrote: > On Sat, May 03, 2003 at 01:35:03 -0400, Joe Hill wrote: > > As far as the "middle click to drag", only people without a > > wheelmouse would miss that, and in my opinion, dragging some web > > pages is, well, a drag. For a page like Slashdot, that's a lot of > > "drag, pick up mouse, drag, pick up mouse, ..." > > But you are forgotting horizontal dragging alltogether! > > The "hold button 2" -drag is one of the key points of Dillos mouse > useability. One can even look at a big screenshot in a small window > easily and quickly, something no other browser seems to enable. very true! and as I pointed out in an earlier thread, I am thrilled that I can now use my mouse wheel to scroll sideways, which as you say, no other browser will do. sorry, but I just love the middle-click to URL too much to give up the fight, I really hope this at least becomes an option in Dillo. you have to admit that viewing huge screenshots is going to be a less-regular occurrence than would justify a hard-coded feature like that. It's _nice_ but not as easily justifiable as loading a URL which happens to some of us hundreds of times daily. > > -- > shared > > _______________________________________________ > Dillo-dev mailing list > Dillo-dev(a)lists.auriga.wearlab.de > http://lists.auriga.wearlab.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dillo-dev

May 3, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] dillo-0.7.2 release

by Jyri Jokinen

On Sat, May 03, 2003 at 01:35:03 -0400, Joe Hill wrote: > As far as the "middle click to drag", only people without a wheelmouse > would miss that, and in my opinion, dragging some web pages is, well, > a drag. For a page like Slashdot, that's a lot of "drag, pick up > mouse, drag, pick up mouse, ..." But you are forgotting horizontal dragging alltogether! The "hold button 2" -drag is one of the key points of Dillos mouse useability. One can even look at a big screenshot in a small window easily and quickly, something no other browser seems to enable. -- shared

May 3, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Suggested mouse short-cuts

by Joe Hill

On Fri, 02 May 2003 15:51:18 -0000 William Trenker <wdtrenker(a)yahoo.ca> wrote: When I first read this suggestion, I thought "oh god, another fancy mouse trick for a simple web browser", but now that I think of it, that would be kinda cool, kinda like the one "ctrl-mousewheeldown=back, ctrl-mousewheelup=forward. My only contention though, is that the forward and back buttons or their equivalent shortcut(s) are becoming, well, obsolete. I almost never use them, since I just open everything in a new tab/browser, then close it when I am done with it. With Galeon or it's like, this can be a memory/cpu hog, but I don't think you would see that problem with Dillo as it is just so damned light (I know Dillo doesn't have tabs, but many window managers now support "grouping", and cycling through the group with the mousewheel, a la my personal fav, Pekwm). I would be interested to see a "poll" of how many people really do rely on the forward and back actions. > On Fri, 2 May 2003 15:41:25-0400, Paul Pelzl W> <pelzlpj(a)eecs.umich.edu> > > wrote: > > > I like the idea, but would this cause problems for people using > > two-button mice in emulated three-button mode? I would think that > > both of these shortcuts could be interpreted as middle clicks... > > > > Actually, I have already been using these mouse short-cuts with an > emulated third-button mouse and Opera. The Opera browser has the same > mouse button shortcuts I'm suggesting for Dillo; that's where I got > the idea. It doesn't confuse the emulated middle-button function > because you are clicking and holding one mouse button before clicking > the other button; there is a slight time delay. It doesn't take long > to get the right feel for it and the reward is really snappy > navigation through the page history. > > (I should have given Opera credit for the idea in my first message, > but I was concerned that the Dillo developers would think I was > proposing the implementation of Opera's much more complex 'mouse > gestures'. I'm not suggesting that, just a couple of relatively > simple mouse key combinations that gives a very worthwhile benefit and > that fits in with the Dillo objective for speed.) > > Bill > > > -- > Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: > http://www.opera.com/m2/ > > _______________________________________________ > Dillo-dev mailing list > Dillo-dev(a)lists.auriga.wearlab.de > http://lists.auriga.wearlab.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dillo-dev

May 3, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] dillo-0.7.2 release

by Joe Hill

On Fri, 2 May 2003 16:35:08 -0400 Paul Pelzl <pelzlpj(a)eecs.umich.edu> wrote: > On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 03:36:21PM -0400, Paul Pelzl wrote: > > On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 08:32:03PM +0200, Sebastian Geerken wrote: > > > > On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Joe Hill wrote: > > > > > Oh, but one little thing, it would be nice to be able to > > > > > middle-click on the browser to load a URL, but I'll wait for > > > > > that, hell I didn't even look for a TODO. > > > > > > Currently, button 2 is bound to dragging, which some people find > > > quite useful. Personally, I'm nearly satisfied with "Clear URL" > > > button, pasting into the entry, and pressing enter. Perhaps these > > > three actions could be shortcut to pressing button 2 in the "Clear > > > URL" button (of course, the tooltip should then make this clear). > > > > > > (BTW, I was not aware of this feature in Netscape, until there was > > > a similar thread on this list, some time ago :-) > > > > It's a bit of a misfeature, if you ask me. In Mozilla (as in > > Dillo), I often middle-click to open links in a new window or tab. > > If I miss the link by a pixel or two, suddenly the current Mozilla > > window is trying to load whatever happened to be in the clipboard. > > It is a standard feature that I would bet dollars to doughnuts millions of people use with Mozilla, Galeon, Skipstone, etc. etc. etc. Since "open link in new window/tab" can be easily configured according to the users prefs (alt-middle-click, or even just "always open link in new browser/tab" which is my personal fav), the"middle click loads URL in clipboard" should be the standard. As far as the "middle click to drag", only people without a wheelmouse would miss that, and in my opinion, dragging some web pages is, well, a drag. For a page like Slashdot, that's a lot of "drag, pick up mouse, drag, pick up mouse, ..." One question linking this issue to the coding of apps in general, where "bloat" is an issue, does offering a greater variety of config options contribute to said "bloat"? If not, then all of this could be settled by building in options for the user to choose themselves, whether at build time or in the prefs dialogue. Of course all of this is "IMHO" ;) > > A great replacement feature (IMO) would be to replicate Mozilla's > > behavior only when the user middle-clicks directly on the location > > bar. It's intuitive, and it shouldn't get in the way of Dillo's > > nifty middle-button-drag panning. > > On second thought, that would certainly cause confusion if the > location bar is already focused. Nevermind. > > Middle-clicking the Clear URL button would be nice. > > Paul > > > > _______________________________________________ > Dillo-dev mailing list > Dillo-dev(a)lists.auriga.wearlab.de > http://lists.auriga.wearlab.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/dillo-dev

May 3, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] dillo-0.7.2 release

by Paul Pelzl

On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 03:36:21PM -0400, Paul Pelzl wrote: > On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 08:32:03PM +0200, Sebastian Geerken wrote: > > > On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Joe Hill wrote: > > > > Oh, but one little thing, it would be nice to be able to middle-click > > > > on the browser to load a URL, but I'll wait for that, hell I didn't > > > > even look for a TODO. > > > > Currently, button 2 is bound to dragging, which some people find quite > > useful. Personally, I'm nearly satisfied with "Clear URL" button, > > pasting into the entry, and pressing enter. Perhaps these three > > actions could be shortcut to pressing button 2 in the "Clear URL" > > button (of course, the tooltip should then make this clear). > > > > (BTW, I was not aware of this feature in Netscape, until there was a > > similar thread on this list, some time ago :-) > > It's a bit of a misfeature, if you ask me. In Mozilla (as in Dillo), I > often middle-click to open links in a new window or tab. If I miss the > link by a pixel or two, suddenly the current Mozilla window is trying to > load whatever happened to be in the clipboard. > > A great replacement feature (IMO) would be to replicate Mozilla's > behavior only when the user middle-clicks directly on the location bar. > It's intuitive, and it shouldn't get in the way of Dillo's nifty > middle-button-drag panning. On second thought, that would certainly cause confusion if the location bar is already focused. Nevermind. Middle-clicking the Clear URL button would be nice. Paul

May 2, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Suggested mouse short-cuts

by Paul Pelzl

On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 12:21:16AM -0000, William Trenker wrote: > I would like to suggest two mouse shortcuts for the Forward and Back > buttons. > > To go back (like clicking the Back toolbar button) the user holds down the > right mouse button and, while continuing to hold down the right button, > clicks the left mouse button. The browser then goes back in the page > history. > > To go forward (like clicking the Forward toolbar button) the user holds > down the left mouse button and, while continuing to hold down the left > button, clicks the right mouse button. The browser then goes forward in > the page history. > > After a little practice this makes navigation through the page history very > quick becuase you don't have to keep moving the mouse onto the toolbar. > > Thanks, > Bill I like the idea, but would this cause problems for people using two-button mice in emulated three-button mode? I would think that both of these shortcuts could be interpreted as middle clicks... Paul

May 2, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] dillo-0.7.2 release

by Paul Pelzl

On Fri, May 02, 2003 at 08:32:03PM +0200, Sebastian Geerken wrote: > > On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Joe Hill wrote: > > > Oh, but one little thing, it would be nice to be able to middle-click > > > on the browser to load a URL, but I'll wait for that, hell I didn't > > > even look for a TODO. > > Currently, button 2 is bound to dragging, which some people find quite > useful. Personally, I'm nearly satisfied with "Clear URL" button, > pasting into the entry, and pressing enter. Perhaps these three > actions could be shortcut to pressing button 2 in the "Clear URL" > button (of course, the tooltip should then make this clear). > > (BTW, I was not aware of this feature in Netscape, until there was a > similar thread on this list, some time ago :-) It's a bit of a misfeature, if you ask me. In Mozilla (as in Dillo), I often middle-click to open links in a new window or tab. If I miss the link by a pixel or two, suddenly the current Mozilla window is trying to load whatever happened to be in the clipboard. A great replacement feature (IMO) would be to replicate Mozilla's behavior only when the user middle-clicks directly on the location bar. It's intuitive, and it shouldn't get in the way of Dillo's nifty middle-button-drag panning. Paul Pelzl

May 2, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] dillo-0.7.2 release

by Lars Clausen

On Fri, 2 May 2003, Sebastian Geerken wrote: >> On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Joe Hill wrote: >> > Oh, but one little thing, it would be nice to be able to middle-click >> > on the browser to load a URL, but I'll wait for that, hell I didn't >> > even look for a TODO. > > Currently, button 2 is bound to dragging, which some people find quite > useful. Personally, I'm nearly satisfied with "Clear URL" button, > pasting into the entry, and pressing enter. Perhaps these three > actions could be shortcut to pressing button 2 in the "Clear URL" > button (of course, the tooltip should then make this clear). That'd be an improvement, but it's still annoying to have to find the button with the mouse. > (BTW, I was not aware of this feature in Netscape, until there was a > similar thread on this list, some time ago :-) This is one of my favorite features of Netscape. It's like drag-and-drop. > On Wed, Apr 30, Lars Clausen wrote: >> I second that. The middle button currently scrolls the page when >> dragged, but it should be easy to tell the difference between a click >> and a drag. > > It is actually a bit more complicated, since you cannot assume that > the user won't move the mouse when he wants to paste the URL. So you > have to define a limit (e.g. 5 pixels), and perhaps even make it > customizable, since every user has a different ability to use the > mouse. Up from here, it gets a bit too complicated to become a useful > feature.

May 2, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] dillo-0.7.2 release

by Sebastian Geerken

> On Wed, 30 Apr 2003, Joe Hill wrote: > > Oh, but one little thing, it would be nice to be able to middle-click > > on the browser to load a URL, but I'll wait for that, hell I didn't > > even look for a TODO. Currently, button 2 is bound to dragging, which some people find quite useful. Personally, I'm nearly satisfied with "Clear URL" button, pasting into the entry, and pressing enter. Perhaps these three actions could be shortcut to pressing button 2 in the "Clear URL" button (of course, the tooltip should then make this clear). (BTW, I was not aware of this feature in Netscape, until there was a similar thread on this list, some time ago :-) On Wed, Apr 30, Lars Clausen wrote: > I second that. The middle button currently scrolls the page when dragged, > but it should be easy to tell the difference between a click and a drag. It is actually a bit more complicated, since you cannot assume that the user won't move the mouse when he wants to paste the URL. So you have to define a limit (e.g. 5 pixels), and perhaps even make it customizable, since every user has a different ability to use the mouse. Up from here, it gets a bit too complicated to become a useful feature. Sebastian

May 2, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] GUI library changing

by Sebastian Geerken

On Tue, Apr 29, Isaque Galdino wrote: > I would like to know how hard would be changing the GUI > library. I would like to change GTK+ stuff by FLTK and run > dillo on my PDA that uses mainly FLTK library. Quite hard, I would not recommend it. Dillo is tightly bound to Gtk+, uses its features, and there are some specific widgets (DwGtk*) derived from GtkWidget, which are probably difficult to port. Sebastian

May 2, 2003