- Dillo-dev - lists.mailman3.com

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: FLTK and Dillo (fwd)

by Melvin Hadasht

> There isn't anything like the GTK1 > "press your new shortcut while the menu item is selected" feature, > something which was (IIRC) removed from GTK2... :( It is not removed but disabled by default: you have to add gtk-can-change-accels = 1 to ~/.gtkrc-2.0 -- Melvin Hadasht

Oct. 18, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by johannes leimbach

Hi! I have used FLTK a little too, and i was astonished how fast and easy you get results with it, anyway, i haven't used gtk(2), so i can't compare. But you might look at the Fl_Help_Browser widget. Though the name is somehow disturbing, it's a full featured HTML display widget, which indeed gave some nice results. So much for FLTK not good enough for a browser :) Cheers, johannes

Oct. 18, 2003

Re: FLTK and Dillo (fwd)

by Jorge Arellano Cid

Hi, Here're Michael's answers: Cheers Jorge.- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:40:53 -0400 From: Michael Sweet <mike(a)easysw.com> To: Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> Subject: Re: FLTK and Dillo Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > ... > 1.- C bindings. > Dillo is written in C while FLTK in C++, is there a way to > bind C code with FLTK? Not directly; since FLTK is based heavily on C++, the easiest way to bind C code to a FLTK-based UI is to do the UI in C++ and provide specific C bindings to/from that UI interface. It might also be possible to generate a whole C binding library to FLTK, but that would be a rather large project and keeping things in sync would be a bitch. > 2.- Unicode, UTF-8. > This was the main reason for considering GTK2. Is FLTK ready > to render Unicode characters? The patched version is, and FLTK 2.0 will fully embrace UTF-8. Rendering of certain languages will likely need work, since the initial version will not likely support the rewriting rules needed for languages like Arabic, Hindi, Vietnamese, etc. Those add a lot of bloat, and coming up with a space/time efficient solution will be a challenge for another day... > 3.- Antialiasing. > Is it possible? Text, yes on all platforms, graphics, yes on OSX. > 4.- Tables, layout? and extensibility > This is maybe the core of it. Currently dillo not only uses > GTK1's widgets, but has its own set: dillo widgets or Dw. > These Dw are embedded into GTK1 widgets, and Dw can also > embedd GTK1 widgets. > > Can we do something alike with FLTK? Yes, via subclassing (which actually makes it a lot simpler than GTK and other toolkits...) There is an excellent table widget in the links pages that Erco has been working on and which will eventually be part of FLTK. The current FLTK layout mechanism is infinitely flexible, but takes a little getting used to since there are no layout "hints", just resizeable widgets inside groups. In short, you group widgets (and sometimes create empty "box" widgets) to get the layout behavior you want. This is actually a lot faster than the older Motif-style layout stuff that GTK+ uses... There are specialized group widgets (Fl_Pack, Fl_Tile, etc.) that provide for special positioning/resizing capabilities separate from the user resizing the window. There is currently no support in 1.x for dynamically-sized labels (e.g. resize a button to hold the localized text), so right now you need to design your UI to leave enough space. FLTK 2.x CVS has some support for this via the specialized Layout widget. > 5.- Keyboard bindings > Is it possible to customize keyboard bindings? Keyboard bindings are generally "compiled in", but your app can override them quite easily. There isn't anything like the GTK1 "press your new shortcut while the menu item is selected" feature, something which was (IIRC) removed from GTK2... :( > 6.- Copy&Paste (clipboard) > Does FLTK provide this? Can it be extended with our custom > widgets inside Dillo? Yes and yes. There is also drag-n-drop support, FWIW... -- ______________________________________________________________________ Michael Sweet, Easy Software Products mike at easysw dot com Printing Software for UNIX http://www.easysw.com

Oct. 18, 2003

FLTK and Dillo (fwd)

by Jorge Arellano Cid

Hi guys! Here's a copy of an email I sent to Michael Sweet (maintainer of FLTK). Hold your breath and I'll forward the answers! Cheers Jorge.- ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:59:23 -0300 (CLST) From: Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> To: mike(a)easysw.com Subject: FLTK and Dillo Hi Michael! Brief: is it possible to port Dillo to FLTK? We were following our plan to port dillo from GTK1 (currently used TK) to GTK2, when one of our list subscribers suggested considering FLTK because of shared philosophy backgrounds: > [...] > IMHO considering Dillo's concentration on speed and stability, it seems > like it would be more appropriate to port the future Dillo to fltk not > fat bloated GTK2.0. I made a skim visit to FLTK's home and it looked far from being able to supply what we need, but then I came across this comment of yours: <q> "First, the current 1.x release of FLTK is portable to all systems using X11 and has "native" support for Windows and OSX, too. The whole low-level interface to the window system is abstracted via a very thin layer within FLTK, which means that you can easily port it to other environments (there is a version of FLTK for many of the Linux-based PDAs, for example.) The 2.0 release of FLTK (currently in development) will actually have separate modules (a la GDK in the GTK+ world) that implement the device class for various interfaces - X11, Quartz, WIN32, any of several framebuffer APIs, etc. Second, there is a version of FLTK 1.1.x that uses UTF-8 for input and display of Unicode; this will also be part of 2.0." </q> And things started to look interesting... I started a thread on our mailing list to ask for comments from the other developers (subject FLTK): http://news.gmane.org/thread.php?group=gmane.comp.web.dillo.devel I beleive that if it's possible to port Dillo to FLTK, it'd be a great step ahead for both projects. Now, you being the project maintainer of FLTK are among the best ones to ask! :-) In general terms, here're our main concerns: 1.- C bindings. Dillo is written in C while FLTK in C++, is there a way to bind C code with FLTK? 2.- Unicode, UTF-8. This was the main reason for considering GTK2. Is FLTK ready to render Unicode characters? 3.- Antialiasing. Is it possible? 4.- Tables, layout? and extensibility This is maybe the core of it. Currently dillo not only uses GTK1's widgets, but has its own set: dillo widgets or Dw. These Dw are embedded into GTK1 widgets, and Dw can also embedd GTK1 widgets. Can we do something alike with FLTK? 5.- Keyboard bindings Is it possible to customize keyboard bindings? 6.- Copy&Paste (clipboard) Does FLTK provide this? Can it be extended with our custom widgets inside Dillo? That's the core of the problem (AFAIS). It'd be great if we can collaborate to make it happen. Please feel free to answer to me, or to the FLTK thread in our list (it doesn't require a subscription). I'll be looking forward to hear from you. Sincerely Jorge.- http://www.dillo.org/

Oct. 18, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by Indan Zupancic

Hello, I have used FLTK a little, and from what I know of it it has less features than GTK, FLTK is probably faster, but GTK was made for GIMP, a drawing program, so I guess it has the functionality you need for a browser. If the current Dillo would be too slow then I would consider switching to FLTK, but not as a upgrade, more a downgrade ;). Though I only know the older FLTK, and not the newer one, so that one may have a lot more functionality. FLTK is written in C++, but you can use it from a C program, or at least you don't have to link to C++ libraries. If your goal is a reasonable fast browser, instead of a very fast one, then I'm afraid I won't use Dillo anymore :(. Looking at the test results, how alpha they may be, I can as well use Firebird. I have two computers, one 233 mhz and one 800 mhz, both are practical GTK2 free, and I would like to keep it that way. The great thing of Dillo is that it's so damn fast, where's the joy if you must wait 3 seconds before it's loaded? If the only reason to switch to GTK2 is to have better fonts support, then I would just stick to GTK 1 and use the freetype library directly, something along the line of prerendered fonts and use them as small pictures, whatever is fastest. Personally I don't need unicode support, can understand that there are a lot people that need or want it, but maybe it's not Dillo's task to support it, maybe a poll on the main website to ask the users about it? For me CSS support is much more important than most other features. I'm digging in Dillo's code to find out a nice way to implement https support, I think the current patch (besides that it's old) is unnecessary big and complicated, I think it can be implemented much cleaner, will post later more about it, probably asking how to handle the variables of the ccc function ;). Greetings, Indan

Oct. 18, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by Sebastian Geerken

Hi! Just some remarks: - The performance by this patch is indeed not acceptable, so don't be afraid that it gets, *in* *this* *form*, into the main trunk. - However, the patch is immature, so is may still be improved to gain a reasonable performance (and I'm quite certain that the problems may be fixed). I'm in no way familiar with Pango, so someone else may look at it. The main issues are: - It is worth to examine the drawing times more, I found only slight differences. OTOH, Pango configuration seems to be a difficult problem. Certainly, informations about Pango configuration will be displayed in the splash page. - The low speed of page build, and the memory usage: The patch uses PangoGlyphString, while a previous version used PangoLayout. Maybe PangoLayout may faster, this should be tested. As I already wrote, I'm not familiar with Pango, I should look at it soon, but someone with Pango experiences may give some clues. At least, with Pango, TMTOWTDI. On Tue, Oct 14, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > I don't know FLTK :(, but here is a list with some preliminary > concerns (AFAIK): > > * Does it provide C bindings, or is for C++ only? > * Does it have a table widget or similar to GTK+'s layout? GtkLayout is mainly there to overcome the limited size of X windows. When I started to develop Dw, I first tried to get a similar result by writing anything myself, but finally gave it up. Look at the Gtk+ documentation, GtkLayout does some weird things which may not be possible with FLTK. On Tue, Oct 14, Madis Janson wrote: > On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Eric Gaudet wrote: > > > Please back your opinions with links, docs, facts or with > > > whatever helps better to understand the point. Maybe a single > > > email can show there's no way to do it, or maybe not! > > > > Two applications I used to run regularly when they were on gtk1.2 were > > ported to gtk2.0: pan and edonkey2000-gtk. > > > > I'm not using them anymore, because their rendering became painfully slow: > > scrolling the lists down takes several seconds to refresh on my 300MMX > > laptop. > > I had similar experience with xchat 1.x (based on gtk1.2) and 2.x (gtk2) - > text scrolling in 2.x version was noticably slow, when i used it on > 200MHz pentium. Even new irc messages caused visible redraw when old > messages were scrolled up by 1 line. Can these problems be fixed with another Pango configuration? On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Eric Gaudet wrote: > What is the purpose of Dw_page_shape_glyphs? At least, it is called, whenever a new word is added to the page, and it somehow determines the size of the word. Sebastian

Oct. 18, 2003

dpi patches and dpilib

by Carlos Daniel Ruvalcaba Valenzuela

Hi everybody I have uploaded the patches for dpi autoloading, its kind of inestable, but works, i got to do some fixes, i'll upload updates as they are ready. Just download the tarball, unpack on the src dir, and: $ patch capi.c capi.diff $ patch IO/dpi.c dpi.diff Also i uploaded the dpilib, a helper library to create plugins for dillo. Check all this on: http://earth.prohosting.com/wbuffer Cheers Carlos Daniel Ruvalcaba Valenzuela

Oct. 18, 2003

Re: GTK2 performance and Dillo

by Alex Pavloff

I hadn't seen this posted on dillo-dev yet, so I thought I'd forward it along. I'm just the messenger, put the guns away. -------- From: Owen Taylor <otaylor(a)redhat.com> To: Robin Rowe <rower(a)MovieEditor.com> Cc: gtk-app-devel-list(a)gnome.org, Stephen Lewis <slewis(a)paradise.net.nz> Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:12:48 -0400 On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 14:09, Robin Rowe wrote: > Hi. Dillo is a very small fast web browser (400kb executable). Stephan > Lewis posted some interesting performances tests yesterday comparing > GTK1 and GTK2 running Dillo. > > Can anyone illuminate further on the size and performance differences > between GTK1 and GTK2? I think these observations are basically irrelevant to most GTK+-2.x applications. GTK+-2.x *is* bigger and slower (this is an almost inevitable consequence of having more features and rendering nicer), but it's not megs bigger and minutes slower. > > Test 1: Base load times > > dillo1 > > Time to load+render: ~1s > > Time to quit: instantaneous > > Size (from top): 7MB > > dillo2 > > Time to load+render: ~3s > > Time to quit: 0.5s (estimated, "felt" slower than dillo1) > > Size: 14MB This is almost a plausible difference between GTK+-1.2 and GTK+-2.0 for a large program; though I suspect that reading the common FAQ's about how to read top sizes would show that the memory difference in actual memory used is much smaller than described above. Small GTK+-2.0 programs load in a few tenths of a second and malloc maybe ~600k of memory on X11. (Probably considerably less on Windows since a large amount that RAM is being used for font lists and fonts.) > > Test2: Loading a 1.8MB html file, styled text, bulletted lists, tables > > of text > > dillo1 > > Time to load: 3s > > extra time to finish rendering: 6s > > Time to quit: ~2s > > Size: 56MB > > dillo2 > > Time to load: 1m20s real according to the time command, more like > > 2m30s due to swapping > > extra time to finish rendering: 10s > > Time to close: 1m20s > > Size: 220MB This is a dillo bug and has nothing to do with GTK+. (Or alternatively dillo is misusing GTK+ badly; if it's creating a GtkLabel per paragraph or something you might get this kind of change. But the 56meg "before" is pretty bad too.) > > A couple of behavioural notes: > > 1) Progressive rendering wasn't useful in dillo2, you get an initial > > draw (which is largely useless), then dillo2 blocks, then the final > > draw. dillo2 issue; the expose models *are* different between GTK+-1.2 and GTK+-2.0. This needs to be taken into account if you are doing something like progressive rendering. Regards, Owen --------

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] [PATCH] Interface patch

by Johann Koenig

On Friday October 17 at 08:41pm Johan Hovold <johan(a)myspys.org> wrote: > - Z/X, back/forward > - These shortcuts will enable quick back/forw without having to > move the left hand (from the left hand side of the keyboard) or > to move the right hand from the mouse (assuming the majority of > dillos users are right handed). Actually, with a dvorak keymap, "," and "." (the current back/forward keys) are very well positioned, in the space usually occupied by 'w' and 'w,' respectively, on a qwerty keyboard. -- -johann koenig Now Playing: Today is Sweetmorn, the 67th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3169 My public pgp key: http://mental-graffiti.com/pgp/johannkoenig.pgp

Oct. 17, 2003

[PATCH] Interface patch

by Johan Hovold

Hi! Here's my patch that adds a search feature and makes a few minor modifications to dillo's interface. - Added search dialog. - Added search button to location bar. - Hidable using show_search preference. - Added cache for search, findtext and open url dialogs. - Added selection of contents upon opening of search, findtext and open url dialogs. - Added selection of text upon shortcut focusing of location bar. - Added deactivation of Ctrl-L in full screen mode. - Added focusing of document window at full screen mode activation. - Added shortcut (ESC) to focus document window. - Accelerators - Ctrl-L, focus location bar. - Ctrl-Shift-L, open url dialog. - Ctrl-S, open search dialog - Z, back - X, forward - ESC, focus document window Most of this has been discussed already in (http://lists.auriga.wearlab.de/pipermail/dillo-dev/2003-June/000781.html) but some additional motivations goes below. Jorge, if you don't agree with me on the shortcut issue, please change them as you prefer. If you don't like the text selection parts, it's easily disabled in the corresponding open dialog callback. Cheers, Johan Some motivations: ================= - Selection of text upon opening of Open Url dialog. - Dialog most likely to be used to enter _new_ urls, hence the previous url should be cleared or should be easy to clear. - By selecting the previous url, it is easily cleared but also easily modifed, if desired. - Selection of text upon shortcut focusing of location bar, and upon opening of find text and search dialog. - As above, by selecting the text, it is easily cleared and also easily modified. - Common behaviour in other applications. - Added cache for search, findtext and open url dialogs. - Previously the text was cleared if you hit cancel (but not otherwise). Accelerators - Ctrl-L/Ctrl-Shift-L, focus locationbar/open url dialog - Partially overlapping functionality (hence shortcuts should be similar). - Use of location bar makes dialog (almost) redundant (hence ctrl-shift for open dialog). - Shortcuts also found in Mozilla. - Ctrl-U interferes with GTK's Delete line shortcut. - F11, fullscreen - De facto standard shortcut for full screen browsing. - Probably not one of the most used shortcuts, why the more awkward F11 key may be used instead of a quicker Ctrl-<key> shortcut. - Ctrl-H interferes with GTK Delete Backward Character shortcut. - Z/X, back/forward - These shortcuts will enable quick back/forw without having to move the left hand (from the left hand side of the keyboard) or to move the right hand from the mouse (assuming the majority of dillos users are right handed). - ESC, focus document window - Added as requested. - Temporary workaround for GTK focus issue?

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: SPAM in the list :(

by Johann Koenig

On Friday October 17 at 10:10am Kelson Vibber <kelson(a)pobox.com> wrote: > I've been using SpamAssassin for well over a year now. While it's > very effective, there are occasionally false positives (fewer now than > there used to be, but they haven't disappeared completely). If it's > possible with Mailman, I'd suggest quarantining mail that SpamAssassin > labels, rather than deleting it outright. Yeah, I use it too, it's pretty good. However, a mailing list is not anywhere near the same as a regular mailbox. Consider, that they do quarantine messages. Perhaps 1% is marked 'unsure.' Now consider that this is not the only mailing list maintained by auriga.wearlab.de. Let's assume 1000 messages per day across all mailing lists. That's 100 messages that must be scanned, every day, probably by someone who is not getting paid. Considering that I only have 87 messages in dillo-dev, and I've been watching the list for some time, thats almost 1 message lost. Could it have been some super-important message? No, because while dillo is really really cool, it's not all too critical (at least not for me). Plus, if it is super-critical, use email, not mailing lists. I, for one, really appreciate the list green-lighting this spam removal. -- -johann koenig Today is Sweetmorn, the 67th day of Bureaucracy in the YOLD 3169 My public pgp key: http://mental-graffiti.com/pgp/johannkoenig.pgp

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: SPAM in the list :(

by Phil Pennock

On 2003-10-17 at 10:10 -0700, Kelson Vibber wrote: > I've been using SpamAssassin for well over a year now. While it's very > effective, there are occasionally false positives (fewer now than there > used to be, but they haven't disappeared completely). If it's possible > with Mailman, I'd suggest quarantining mail that SpamAssassin labels, > rather than deleting it outright. There's one major difference. If user Fred sends mail to user Barney and Barney's spam-filters delete it, Fred never knows this. If user Fred sends mail to a mailing-list to which Fred is subscribed, Fred sees that his mail never makes it through. He can raise the issue with the list-owner, or look over his mail and think "Hrm, that was written in a poor way, wasn't it?" or whatever. There's user feedback. Jorge's shown that he understands this principle with Dillo. :^) It makes all the difference. If this is a big concern, then it might be worth a monthly mail-out of the list charter with a brief list FAQ, such as some mailing-lists used to have (and USENET certainly did). -- 2001: Blogging invented. Promises to change the way people bore strangers with banal anecdotes about their pets. <http://www.thelemon.net/issues/timeline.php>

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: SPAM in the list :(

by Kelson Vibber

At 09:22 AM 10/17/2003, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: >On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Andreas Kemnade wrote: > > spamassassin is attached to dillo-dev now. Every message considered as spam > > will be deleted without notice. I'm a bit concerned about that. From the SpamAssassin FAQ: http://spamassassin.taint.org/faq/index.cgi?req=show&file=faq01.010.htp >1.10. Is it sensible to simply delete all mail that SpamAssassin marks as >being spam? > >In general, no. While SpamAssassin is very good at picking out a large >proportion of spam, it's impossible for a computer to do this job >perfectly. You should only delete mail if you (and your users/customers) >would find it acceptable to lose mail that might be legitimate. A much >better idea is to filter possible spam into a separate folder that can be >checked less frequently than the normal mailbox. I've been using SpamAssassin for well over a year now. While it's very effective, there are occasionally false positives (fewer now than there used to be, but they haven't disappeared completely). If it's possible with Mailman, I'd suggest quarantining mail that SpamAssassin labels, rather than deleting it outright. Kelson Vibber www.hyperborea.org

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Dillo CVS has no bookmark menu?

by Jorge Arellano Cid

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, johannes leimbach wrote: > Hi! > > Is it only me, or is the bookmark menu broken in the current cvs version? > It does not show up.. > > Thanks for answer! We've been making sevral changed to dpid lately, but it works! Just make sure you don't have an obsolete dpid on ~/.dillo/ or anywhere in your path. (rm `which dpid`; cd dpid/; strip dpid; cp dpid ~/.dillo) Also make sure the bookmarks dpi binary is accesible. Ah, you may also have an old dpid already running, kill all of the instances and make sure they're gone! ps aux | grep dpi; kill stuff... (kill the dpis first, then dpi. We're working on this). HTH Jorge.-

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: SPAM in the list :(

by Jorge Arellano Cid

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Andreas Kemnade wrote: > On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:36:44 -0300 (CLST) > Jorge Arellano Cid <jcid(a)dillo.org> wrote: > > > > > Hi Andi, > > > > I just noticed four intances of the "nigerian scam" type of > > SPAM in dillo-dev. I'm worried because usually I also receive > > warning bounces from recipients telling that mail from dillo-dev > > may end being filetered out. > > > spamassassin is attached to dillo-dev now. Every message considered as spam > will be deleted without notice. > > Greetings > Andreas Kemnade Take note guys! If you ever feel unsure about whether a message made its way into the list, just check the archives. Cheers Jorge.- PS: Thanks Andreas.

Oct. 17, 2003

[PATCH] Version 2 of keyboard navigation, solves problem with Tab

by Frank de Lange

Hi'all, The next version (2) of my keyboard navigation patch is ready. See the end of this message for download instructions. Do note that the tab/frame patch already contains this functionality, so there is no need (and no way) to apply this patch on top of that or the other way around. This release does not contain any major new functionality. It solves the problems with Tab, which now does what you'd expect it to do: cycle through form widgets. For more info on what this patch does, see the last message on the list or the doc/Keyboard_Navigation.txt document (after applying the patch, naturally...) Download instructions ===================== There is currently only one version of the patch, made against 20031017/11:26GMT CVS. As always, have a look at the patch website (http://www.geocities.com/ikbenfrank/) for the latest version of the patch. This patch does NOT apply on top of the tab/frame patch, and the tab/frame patch does not apply on top of this one! The tab/frame patch already contains this functionality, so it is not needed. http://www.geocities.com/ikbenfrank/dillo-200310171559-kbnav.patch.gz size: 14494 bytes (gzipped, as downloaded) 64277 bytes (uncompressed) md5sum: 8ebd2450b762a720363346c0c4a7a537 (gzipped, as downloaded) 9538b60172b910e89c993d887b28bc97 (uncompressed) Cheers//Frank -- WWWWW ________________________ ## o o\ / Frank de Lange \ }# \| / +46-734352015 \ \ `--| _/ <Hacker for Hire> \ `---' \ +31-640037120 / \ frank(a)unternet.org / `------------------------' [ "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est." ]

Oct. 17, 2003

[PATCH] Version 12 of tab/frame/kbnav patch, solves problem with Tab

by Frank de Lange

Hi'all, The next version (12) of my tab/frame/keyboard navigation patch is ready (see bottom of this message for download instructions). No big new features this time, just a useability fix for the Tab key and an update to the latest CVS. Tab now does what you'd expect it to do, cycle through form widgets. I'll spare you the usual list of comments on this release, it would be identical to last release's list anyway... Download instructions ===================== The patch is made against 20031017/11:26GMT CVS. Do not forget to run ./autogen.sh after applying the patch. You can find the patch on the usual (ad-happy, use an ad-blocking proxy or sane browser) site: http://www.geocities.com/ikbenfrank/ More specifically: Dillo 0.8.0-pre (CVS) ===================== http://www.geocities.com/ikbenfrank/dillo-20031017-tabs.patch.gz size: 85658 bytes (gzipped, as downloaded) 373460 bytes (uncompressed) md5sum: be0618ac0136fafd9f7f91ce8a4db142 (gzipped, as downloaded) 41438b3b27bf45f23b6a9069eee37cb6 (uncompressed) As always, check the site for the most recent version Cheers//Frank -- WWWWW ________________________ ## o o\ / Frank de Lange \ }# \| / \ \ `--| _/ <Hacker for Hire> \ `---' \ +46-734352015 / \ frank(a)unternet.org / `------------------------' [ "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est." ]

Oct. 17, 2003

/. crap

by Andrew A. Gill

[I'm not subscribed to the list, but I do read it in the archives.] Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 11:44:33 -0400 From: Jamie McCarthy <jamie(a)mccarthy.vg> Subject: Re: [secret-list] /. hubris superluser(a)frontiernet.net (Andrew A. Gill) writes: > For a while, users of Dillo (<http://www.dillo.org>) have been > having trouble reading Slashdot (<http://slashdot.org>). Looks > like a misplaced </td></tr> is to blame. Anybody want to > pester Cowboy Neal? Well, this is one of the fun things about working on a public project: I get bug reports through more than just the usual channels. Hi, I'm Jamie, I'm the one who wrote the bug, and I'm the one who will get around to fixing it... eventually. There's no immediately simple way to fix the HTML. What's going on is actually kind of interesting. Slashdot runs on Slash, which is a publicly available project used on hundreds of other websites. The look of Slashdot and its front-page table layout is fairly different under the hood from the layout of "Slashcode," which is the default theme that we ship. These differences are mostly encoded in template files, which are data chunks arranged mostly hierarchically that can be selected in all kinds of interesting ways. That means, sadly, that changing one template has many repercussions. Obviously I know where the buggy HTML output is; that's what that commented-out  tag is doing there. But I have to think about what that change would do not just to Slashdot, but to the Slashcode theme generically, to the sites that use that theme as-is, to the dozen other sites my company runs that have modified that theme, to the who-knows how many other sites that strangers run that have modified that theme, to "light mode," to the three or four separate scripts that use the template, I have to test with the pre-rendering caching, etc., etc. Slashdot's HTML layout has always been broken. Early this year I took it upon myself to fix it and quickly realized that there was no good way to fix just Slashdot, without either breaking Slashcode as well or introducing a large number of copy-and-pasted code as a difference between the two that would have to be maintained. What I did instead was write code for the Template Toolkit that lets these dozens of templates build the HTML tables dynamically. As new <TR> and <TD> tags are laid out, variables are incremented and decremented. By the time we get to the bottom of the page, the code knows how many <TD>s and <TR>s it's got to close, and how, in order to make the HTML all nice and pristine. That way, Slashdot.org and Slashcode.com can have wholly different columnar layouts and the low-level templates don't have to know about any of it. The CPU overhead is minimal, and overall it works great. Except there's one bug. It doesn't keep proper track of the tables it's building. It dumps errors in the log so I know about where it is. But it's difficult to narrow down. In my defense, it was broken before I wrote this code, and while it's still broken now, it's broken *less*. But it's broken *differently* and of course there is one browser that (unlike every other browser ever written) isn't smart enough to handle malformed table tags. <http://www.dillo.org/> This is the part where I rhetorically ask why anyone would write a web browser from scratch, the goal of which is to render 100% syntactically correct webpages really really fast. Are there not enough existing web browsers whose goals are to render pages really really fast? Is it perhaps not widely known that there exists, somewhere on the web, HTML code which just might not be 100% exactly correct? Is it smart to build a nitro-burning funny car dragster to carry your groceries and then complain to mailing lists about the potholes on Main Street? When version 0.7.2 of the funny car handled the potholes just fine, but 0.7.3 explodes on contact, should its designers necessarily be focused entirely on the potholes? And should anyone be surprised that writing a web browser is hard? If I could find a way to ask those questions without sounding like I was shifting the blame off my own fool self, I would. It's one of those things that is probably a nice easy single day of work. But I can't remember the last time I actually had a whole day to work on something. Our new load balancer is choking our webheads with unACK'd SYN's and I'm not sure whose fault it is. (And of course the new load balancer is named "pound," only the most common word in the English language, so good luck Googling for anyone else with the same problems.) Our new sites being launched are extending the code in ways it wasn't built for and we're having to scramble. DB replication on one of those new sites went down this morning, and while we built some kickass code to failover to the master, we hadn't had time to get that running yet. Oh, and either my ISP or my home router/gateway is flaky, so I keep falling off the internet. And of course, the day after I fix the HTML 3.2 table layout bug, I am quite certain my boss will email me to say it's finally time to start working on the switch to XHTML and CSS, which we've been planning for a year and just haven't had time for. So yes, I'd love to fix your bug. I don't like emitting broken HTML code either. I'm a big fan of adhering to standards, and I'm a big fan of not having my code embarrass me in public. I hate feeling like a jackass. But I have other things to worry about, and you have other browsers to choose from that render Slashdot just fine. Meanwhile, your bug sits right here, at Priority 5, where it's sat since we first diagnosed it in April: https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=719813&group_id=4421&atid=… -- Jamie McCarthy http://mccarthy.vg/ jamie(a)mccarthy.vg Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:50:48 -0400 From: Jamie McCarthy <jamie(a)mccarthy.vg> Subject: Re: [secret-list] /. hubris superluser(a)frontiernet.net (Andrew A. Gill) writes: > > Well, this is one of the fun things about working on a public > > project: I get bug reports through more than just the usual > > channels. Hi, I'm Jamie, I'm the one who wrote the bug, and > > I'm the one who will get around to fixing it... eventually. > > Do you mind if I forward this message to the Dillo people? If you do, mention to them that I'm not picking on them. This bug is my fault and I'll fix it. I wish them luck and I'm glad they're doing what they're doing (anyone writing GPL code is OK in my book). It's just that I won't fix it until it gets to the top of my priority list, fact of life, and there's a lot of other things up there... :( A workaround meanwhile is to try light mode, which you can get to past the black window with: http://slashdot.org/index.pl?light=1 http://slashdot.org/users.pl?op=edithome&light=1 and then check the "Light" box, and Save to make that your pref. -- Jamie McCarthy http://mccarthy.vg/ jamie(a)mccarthy.vg

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: gtk2 and dillo ( was FLTK )

by Jorge Arellano Cid

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Madis Janson wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, robert w hall wrote: > > > In article <20031016032905.GA12137(a)ws0.localdomain>, Stephen Lewis > > <slewis(a)paradise.net.nz> writes > > >On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 10:20:11AM -0300, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > > >> > > >> This is also an RFC for information on GTK+2 (speed, size, > > >> linkings etc). > > >> > > >> Please back your opinions with links, docs, facts or with > > >> whatever helps better to understand the point. Maybe a single > > >> email can show there's no way to do it, or maybe not! > > > > > >I've just been playing with the GTK+2 patch, and I've got some > > >numbers (I won't call them fact :), and opinions: > > > > can we assume/hope/plead (in the light of these numbers!) that any move > > to gtk2 is post-dillo-0.8 :-) > > > > Read dillo goals ;) > > I believe that the move to gtk2 will be done only then, when it can be > done without affecting dillo's usability as a light and fast browser. Sure, dillo-0.8.0 will be a GTK1 app. BTW, I foresee almost a month to its release: we still have to sabilize dpi, and study/merge/modify some/all of Frank's patches. Last but not the least, please continue posting on the FLTK thread. It's the same! Cheers Jorge.-

Oct. 17, 2003

Dillo CVS has no bookmark menu?

by johannes leimbach

Hi! Is it only me, or is the bookmark menu broken in the current cvs version? It does not show up.. Thanks for answer! Cheers, johannes

Oct. 17, 2003

RE: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by Eric GAUDET

I ran my tests again, only with antialiasing disabled this time (for font sizes between 6 and 14). The results of the first run are repeated here, and dillo2n represents the new runs. Please refer to my previous email for a detailed description of the tests. I also experimented with sub-pixel rendering, without antialiasing (dillo2ns) and with antialiasing (dillo2s) First run: ---------- Results: time1 time2 delta/30 prps mem(KB) dillo1 1.36s 1.82s 15ms 67 2516 dillo2 3.10s 6.90s 126ms 8 3624 dillo2s 3.23s 7.16s 131ms 7.6 n/a dillo2n 3.34s 5.33s 66ms 15 3628 dillo2ns 3.16s 4.94s 59ms 17 n/a Conclusion: While disabling antialiasing rendering doesn't seem to change anything for the start time (which was already acceptable, IMHO), it doubles the speed when scrooling entire pages! With this setting, dillo2n became useable. Not quite as snappy as dillo1 (still 4 times slower on redraws), but very acceptable. Turning off antialiasing doesn't change the amount memory used. Turning on sub-pixel rendering doesn't affect the rendering time, but seems to improve the quality only when used with antialiasing. However, my fonts look ugly with gtk-2.0 and I don't seem to be able to find any setting that helps (it seems to scale non-scalable fonts). With gtk-1.2, the font look good. Second run: skipped. Third run: ---------- This is a scaled down version of the second run. I took the same file and kept only the first 2000 line. The test file is 684 KB. Results: time1 time2 mem(KB) dillo1 5.1s 35s 12708 dillo2 31.5s 2m53s 33520 dillo2n 29.9s n/a 33652 Conclusion: Nothing changed here: loading big pages is still painful brings the whole machine down on its knees when swapping starts. For the record, the real time (time2) was 2m10s, but the load on my system was completely different today, so I don't this it compares to yesterdays results. Fourth run: skipped. Fifth run: ---------- This is a free run of internet browsing, to get an overall feeling. No numbers for this one. Includes browsing several sites, open up to 8 windows, switch between them and close them all, click on the floppy disk to save URL. Selecting text was fast. Conclusion: Still feels heavy. Faster on scrolling, acceptable, in fact, but any operation is still taking enough time for me to notice I'm actually waiting for the redraws to occur. Particularly when overlapping redraws occur (X Expose events), like switching from one window to another. Also, as another poster noticed, *closing* windows takes a significant amount of time (this is certainly related to freeing much more memory than dillo1). I timed another operation to give you an idea: I opened and closed (cancel) the save URL dialog 5 times in dillo2n, substracted the start and closing time as usual and divided by 5: 1.4s each time (user time, real time more like 6s). Same experience with dillo1: 0.09s. Now that's what I'm talking about! (could not get any real time, most of it is spent by moving the mouse from one button to another) Final conclusion: ----------------- If we go with gtk-2.0, we absolutely need to document this antialiasing setting: I had a hard time finding that some information was on fontconfig.org! If we also can point to font de-uglyfication of gtk-2.0, that would help a lot. Regardless, like Stephen said, memory usage is a huge problem. I assume this cause by the libraries and the implementation in dillo is the same (i.e: dillo's structure did not grow x2.5 because the the port). Until this problem is solved, I don't think gtk-2.0 is a viable option for dillo. Disabling antialiasing definitely solves most of my concerns about speed: if only I could get the font to be as clean as gtk-1.2, I would be happy. Best, EG PS: the patch is still alpha-quality and has a lot of rendering bugs: font-factor screws-up positionning, text selection hightlights at the wrong place, etc.

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Development

by Carlos Daniel Ruvalcaba Valenzuela

> > Any comments?, anyone wants the patches? > > Good idea. Wheres the patches? This weekend i'll prepare the patches, i'll setup a site for all the stuff also. The dpi autoloading for dillo is quite safe, it works even with current plugins without much changes (just in the name of dpi executables). For example: We can do this: url = a_Url_new("dpi:/bm/", NULL, 0, 0); a_Nav_push(bw, url); This will load the bookmarks dpi, but it asumes certain format of the dpi exacurable, this can be replaced with a list of dpi executable -> dpi name list on the config file. It will asume dpiname_srv, thus the bookmarks dpi will be bm_srv. The modification dosen't changes the actual cominications of dpi<-->dillo, only adds dpi autoloading. The patches changes only: capi.c a_Capi_open_url() a_Capi_dpi_send_cmd IO/dpi.c a_Dpi_ccc Dpi_launch_server That's all, see ya the weekend. By the way, who is in charge of the Downloads Plugin? I 'm also working on it, soo if i can help on something, just drop a mail. Cheers Carlos Daniel Ruvalcaba Valenzuela _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? La mejor conexión a internet y 25MB extra a tu correo por $100 al mes. http://net.yahoo.com.mx

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: gtk2 and dillo ( was FLTK )

by Madis Janson

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, robert w hall wrote: > In article <20031016032905.GA12137(a)ws0.localdomain>, Stephen Lewis > <slewis(a)paradise.net.nz> writes > >On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 10:20:11AM -0300, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > >> > >> This is also an RFC for information on GTK+2 (speed, size, > >> linkings etc). > >> > >> Please back your opinions with links, docs, facts or with > >> whatever helps better to understand the point. Maybe a single > >> email can show there's no way to do it, or maybe not! > > > >I've just been playing with the GTK+2 patch, and I've got some > >numbers (I won't call them fact :), and opinions: > > can we assume/hope/plead (in the light of these numbers!) that any move > to gtk2 is post-dillo-0.8 :-) > Read dillo goals ;) I believe that the move to gtk2 will be done only then, when it can be done without affecting dillo's usability as a light and fast browser.

Oct. 17, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: gtk2 and dillo ( was FLTK )

by robert w hall

In article <20031016032905.GA12137(a)ws0.localdomain>, Stephen Lewis <slewis(a)paradise.net.nz> writes >On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 10:20:11AM -0300, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: >> >> This is also an RFC for information on GTK+2 (speed, size, >> linkings etc). >> >> Please back your opinions with links, docs, facts or with >> whatever helps better to understand the point. Maybe a single >> email can show there's no way to do it, or maybe not! > >I've just been playing with the GTK+2 patch, and I've got some >numbers (I won't call them fact :), and opinions: can we assume/hope/plead (in the light of these numbers!) that any move to gtk2 is post-dillo-0.8 :-) Bob -- robert w hall

Oct. 16, 2003

PLEASE COME TO MY AID

by MR NZANGA JOSEPH MOBUTU

FROM:Mr. Nzanga Joseph Mobutu ALTERNATIVE E-MAIL:nzanga_nzanga@tiscali.co.uk Dear Friend, I am the first son of the late Mobutu Sese Seko, the former President of the Congo Republic. I am presently under protective custody in Nigeria as a political refugee. I got your contact during my search for a stranger that can cooperate with me in this mutual transaction. I want you to note that this business will benefit both of us. However, you must confirm your ability to handle this because it involves a large amount of money. The money US$50 million US DOLLARS (Fifty Million United States DollarsOnly) is my share of my father's estate. I boxed and shippedthe money to a security company abroad at the peak of the war/politicalcrisis that rocked my country few years ago. Now the crisis has ended and Ineed a trustworthy person like you to proceed to the place of the securitycompany in order to clear the fund and invest on my behalf as I dont want myname to be used for now. Note that I will send to you the relevant documents that will enable you take possesion of the the fund for onward investment for our mutual benefit. All I need from you is as follows: 1. A letter of committment (duely signed) that you will keep the transaction strictly confidential. 2. Your confirmation of your abilityto handle this. 3. Your IDt or driving licence number for identification to the security company. 4. Your telephone and fax numbers for communication. 5. Your full permanent address. As soon as I get the above information from you, I will disclose to you the name and the country of the security company. I will forward your name and particulars to the securitycompany to enable them contact you accordingly. I will also send to you aLETTER OF AUTHORITY to enable you clear the fund on my behalf. Note thatthis is a very safe transaction as this money is my share of my father's estate. I am waiting for your response to enable us proceed. Regards, Mr. Nzanga Joseph Mobutu.

Oct. 16, 2003

PLEASE COME TO MY AID

by MR NZANGA JOSEPH MOBUTU

FROM:Mr. Nzanga Joseph Mobutu ALTERNATIVE E-MAIL:nzanga_nzanga@tiscali.co.uk Dear Friend, I am the first son of the late Mobutu Sese Seko, the former President of the Congo Republic. I am presently under protective custody in Nigeria as a political refugee. I got your contact during my search for a stranger that can cooperate with me in this mutual transaction. I want you to note that this business will benefit both of us. However, you must confirm your ability to handle this because it involves a large amount of money. The money US$50 million US DOLLARS (Fifty Million United States DollarsOnly) is my share of my father's estate. I boxed and shippedthe money to a security company abroad at the peak of the war/politicalcrisis that rocked my country few years ago. Now the crisis has ended and Ineed a trustworthy person like you to proceed to the place of the securitycompany in order to clear the fund and invest on my behalf as I dont want myname to be used for now. Note that I will send to you the relevant documents that will enable you take possesion of the the fund for onward investment for our mutual benefit. All I need from you is as follows: 1. A letter of committment (duely signed) that you will keep the transaction strictly confidential. 2. Your confirmation of your abilityto handle this. 3. Your IDt or driving licence number for identification to the security company. 4. Your telephone and fax numbers for communication. 5. Your full permanent address. As soon as I get the above information from you, I will disclose to you the name and the country of the security company. I will forward your name and particulars to the securitycompany to enable them contact you accordingly. I will also send to you aLETTER OF AUTHORITY to enable you clear the fund on my behalf. Note thatthis is a very safe transaction as this money is my share of my father's estate. I am waiting for your response to enable us proceed. Regards, Mr. Nzanga Joseph Mobutu.

Oct. 16, 2003

PLEASE COME TO MY AID

by MR NZANGA JOSEPH MOBUTU

FROM:Mr. Nzanga Joseph Mobutu ALTERNATIVE E-MAIL:nzanga_nzanga@tiscali.co.uk Dear Friend, I am the first son of the late Mobutu Sese Seko, the former President of the Congo Republic. I am presently under protective custody in Nigeria as a political refugee. I got your contact during my search for a stranger that can cooperate with me in this mutual transaction. I want you to note that this business will benefit both of us. However, you must confirm your ability to handle this because it involves a large amount of money. The money US$50 million US DOLLARS (Fifty Million United States DollarsOnly) is my share of my father's estate. I boxed and shippedthe money to a security company abroad at the peak of the war/politicalcrisis that rocked my country few years ago. Now the crisis has ended and Ineed a trustworthy person like you to proceed to the place of the securitycompany in order to clear the fund and invest on my behalf as I dont want myname to be used for now. Note that I will send to you the relevant documents that will enable you take possesion of the the fund for onward investment for our mutual benefit. All I need from you is as follows: 1. A letter of committment (duely signed) that you will keep the transaction strictly confidential. 2. Your confirmation of your abilityto handle this. 3. Your IDt or driving licence number for identification to the security company. 4. Your telephone and fax numbers for communication. 5. Your full permanent address. As soon as I get the above information from you, I will disclose to you the name and the country of the security company. I will forward your name and particulars to the securitycompany to enable them contact you accordingly. I will also send to you aLETTER OF AUTHORITY to enable you clear the fund on my behalf. Note thatthis is a very safe transaction as this money is my share of my father's estate. I am waiting for your response to enable us proceed. Regards, Mr. Nzanga Joseph Mobutu.

Oct. 16, 2003

PLEASE COME TO MY AID

by MR NZANGA JOSEPH MOBUTU

FROM:Mr. Nzanga Joseph Mobutu ALTERNATIVE E-MAIL:nzanga_nzanga@tiscali.co.uk Dear Friend, I am the first son of the late Mobutu Sese Seko, the former President of the Congo Republic. I am presently under protective custody in Nigeria as a political refugee. I got your contact during my search for a stranger that can cooperate with me in this mutual transaction. I want you to note that this business will benefit both of us. However, you must confirm your ability to handle this because it involves a large amount of money. The money US$50 million US DOLLARS (Fifty Million United States DollarsOnly) is my share of my father's estate. I boxed and shippedthe money to a security company abroad at the peak of the war/politicalcrisis that rocked my country few years ago. Now the crisis has ended and Ineed a trustworthy person like you to proceed to the place of the securitycompany in order to clear the fund and invest on my behalf as I dont want myname to be used for now. Note that I will send to you the relevant documents that will enable you take possesion of the the fund for onward investment for our mutual benefit. All I need from you is as follows: 1. A letter of committment (duely signed) that you will keep the transaction strictly confidential. 2. Your confirmation of your abilityto handle this. 3. Your IDt or driving licence number for identification to the security company. 4. Your telephone and fax numbers for communication. 5. Your full permanent address. As soon as I get the above information from you, I will disclose to you the name and the country of the security company. I will forward your name and particulars to the securitycompany to enable them contact you accordingly. I will also send to you aLETTER OF AUTHORITY to enable you clear the fund on my behalf. Note thatthis is a very safe transaction as this money is my share of my father's estate. I am waiting for your response to enable us proceed. Regards, Mr. Nzanga Joseph Mobutu.

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Fw: Slashdot's HTML fix (fwd)

by Andreas Kemnade

Hi, some more information about that topic: Dillo is not the only browser which shows most of the page black. Amaya (The W3C's browser/html editor) has the same problems.

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by Alex Pavloff

> What *does* take far more time is the initial rendering, > while rewrapping is exactly as fast as before. This (and also > that Pango is only used for drawing, and determing the size > of fonts and words) lets me assume that Dw_page_shape_glyphs > is not very efficient. I've tried to track down this with > gprof, but somehow the profile does not give me much clues. > Perhaps it is worth to optimize this code. (The comparison is > a bit unfair because of the different grades of matureness :-) Hi guys, It seems obvious to me, that before an effort is made to rip out one widget system and replace it with another widget system, a little more profiling is in order to confirm indeed, that the problem is Pango. If Pango is the problem, again, before changing the underlying widget system, perhaps some investigation in concert with the Pango developers should be done to see if there's some way to optimize dillo or Pango. Just my $0.02. Alex Pavloff - apavloff(a)esatechnology.com ESA Technology ---- www.esatechnology.com ------- Linux-based industrial HMI ------ -------- www.esatechnology.com/5k -------

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] [PATCH] bug in menu.c (SOLVED)

by Jorge Arellano Cid

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Frank de Lange wrote: > [...] > Found the cause. This error is present in the CVS version of Dillo as > well, but there it does not matter much (probably why it was not > discovered before). In menu.c:Menu_add(): > > if (callback != NULL) { > gtk_signal_connect(GTK_OBJECT(menuitem), "activate", > (GtkSignalFunc) Menu_pick_url, data); > ^^^^ > > "data" should be "bw", as Menu_pick_url() needs a BrowserWindow* as > second parameter. In CVS Dillo "data" (which is used as user data for > callbacks) happens to be always set to "bw", so this bug did not > manifest itself. In the patched version, some callbacks expect a > DilloDoc* as parameter though... So Menu_pick_url() is called with a > DilloDoc* instead of a BrowserWindow*... > > The fix is simple: > > <PATCH> > diff -pruN dillo/src/menu.c dillo_patched/src/menu.c > --- dillo/src/menu.c 2003-09-25 15:10:24.000000000 +0200 > +++ dillo_patched/src/menu.c 2003-10-16 14:56:38.733763968 +0200 > @@ -109,7 +109,7 @@ static GtkWidget * > } > if (callback != NULL) { > gtk_signal_connect(GTK_OBJECT(menuitem), "activate", > - (GtkSignalFunc) Menu_pick_url, data); > + (GtkSignalFunc) Menu_pick_url, bw); > gtk_signal_connect(GTK_OBJECT(menuitem), "activate", > (GtkSignalFunc) callback, data); > } > </PATCH> > > Jorge, can you commit this patchlet to CVS? Done! Cheers Jorge.-

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] [PATCH] version 1 of keyboard navigation patch

by Glyn Kennington

Frank de Lange wrote: > > [segfault involving links in alt tags] > I have not been able to reproduce this yet, will try again and fix > anything I find... But, as stated, it does not happen here... Could have > something to do with your next remark? > > [patches not applying cleanly] Well, as no-one else seemed affected, I tried again with a couple more timestamps on cvs. I found a tree to which the patch would apply cleanly (no fuzz factor, no offsets), and yes, the bug had disappeared. (My broken version also didn't shade the images when they were selected - a feature I didn't know I was missing.) I'll take a closer look at some of the cvs changes before my broken version, but it's probably nothing serious. Glyn -- glyn.kennington(a)ox.compsoc.net

Oct. 16, 2003

[PATCH] bug in menu.c (SOLVED)

by Frank de Lange

Stephan Goetter wrote: >Hi, > >I just got this, after opening a new tab, going to >http://www.foobar123.org/ (yes, it doesn't exist :) >and then trying to close the Tab. > >Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. >Menu_pick_url (widget=0x8158e80, client_data=0x8113f20) at menu.c:112 >112 gtk_object_remove_data(GTK_OBJECT (bw->menu_popup.over_image), "url2"); >(gdb) backtrace full >#0 Menu_pick_url (widget=0x8158e80, client_data=0x8113f20) at menu.c:112 > bw = (struct _BrowserWindow *) 0x8113f20 >#1 0x40142ef6 in gtk_marshal_NONE__NONE () from /usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 >No symbol table info available. >#2 0x40187e16 in gtk_signal_remove_emission_hook () from /usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 >No symbol table info available. >#3 0x40186f3b in gtk_signal_handlers_destroy () from /usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 >No symbol table info available. >#4 0x40184b8e in gtk_signal_emit () from /usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 >No symbol table info available. >... > >Greets, >Stephan > Found the cause. This error is present in the CVS version of Dillo as well, but there it does not matter much (probably why it was not discovered before). In menu.c:Menu_add(): if (callback != NULL) { gtk_signal_connect(GTK_OBJECT(menuitem), "activate", (GtkSignalFunc) Menu_pick_url, data); ^^^^ "data" should be "bw", as Menu_pick_url() needs a BrowserWindow* as second parameter. In CVS Dillo "data" (which is used as user data for callbacks) happens to be always set to "bw", so this bug did not manifest itself. In the patched version, some callbacks expect a DilloDoc* as parameter though... So Menu_pick_url() is called with a DilloDoc* instead of a BrowserWindow*... The fix is simple: <PATCH> diff -pruN dillo/src/menu.c dillo_patched/src/menu.c --- dillo/src/menu.c 2003-09-25 15:10:24.000000000 +0200 +++ dillo_patched/src/menu.c 2003-10-16 14:56:38.733763968 +0200 @@ -109,7 +109,7 @@ static GtkWidget * } if (callback != NULL) { gtk_signal_connect(GTK_OBJECT(menuitem), "activate", - (GtkSignalFunc) Menu_pick_url, data); + (GtkSignalFunc) Menu_pick_url, bw); gtk_signal_connect(GTK_OBJECT(menuitem), "activate", (GtkSignalFunc) callback, data); } </PATCH> Jorge, can you commit this patchlet to CVS? Cheers//Frank -- WWWWW ________________________ ## o o\ / Frank de Lange \ }# \| / +46-734352015 \ \ `--| _/ <Hacker for Hire> \ `---' \ +31-640037120 / \ frank(a)unternet.org / `------------------------' [ "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est." ]

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] [PATCH] version 1 of keyboard navigation patch

by Victor Sahlstedt

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:13:04 +0200 Frank de Lange <frank(a)unternet.org> wrote: > I have not been able to reproduce this yet, will try again and fix > anything I find... But, as stated, it does not happen here... Could have > something to do with your next remark? > > [ LIST: has anyone else seen this? ] No, I can't reproduce this. - Victor

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] [PATCH] version 1 of keyboard navigation patch

by Frank de Lange

Glyn Kennington wrote: > I like most of it. But after a very short time, I've found some things > >that I think need improving. So, in order of decreasing importance: > >1) I've found a bug that will cause dillo to crash: > > Go to a page whose first link is in an alt-tagged image. (The one I've > been using for this bugreport is www.guardian.co.uk .) > > Press the key for `link DOWN'. This will make the image link the > current link (status bar reads "http://www.guardian.co.uk/0,6961,,00.html") > > Go to another page. This can be by clicking Home, Back etc, typing in > another URL, or activating a link on the current page. > > Once dillo is about to start rendering the new page, it dies with a > segfault. gdb tells me that it's at the end of Dw_image_destroy(): > g_free (image->alt_text); > >This crash still occurs if I move to the next link (outside the image) >before going to a different page. > > I have not been able to reproduce this yet, will try again and fix anything I find... But, as stated, it does not happen here... Could have something to do with your next remark? [ LIST: has anyone else seen this? ] >2) Patching problems. I know the email said `use cvs 14/10/2003', but >the patch filename includes the string 20031015, so I attempted to patch >against my just-updated checkout. This normally wouldn't be a problem >over the course of only a day, but today there was some change to the >arguments of a_Commands_set_selection which broke the patch. If you >could include on your webpage the exact date and time of the CVS >checkout, near the link to the patch, it would probably prevent this >sort of confusion from happening again. > > Hmmm... tricky. I'll add a GMT date/time to the CVS version to be used. The date-string on the patch is autogenerated by my patch scripts, it just tells the date I made a release. It is not necessarily related to the CVS date the patch is based on. Sometimes I make incremental changes to a patch without updating CVS. >3) The TODO mentions more bindings. Do you intend to make Back > bindable? > > I intend to make everything bindable. That is, everything which can be bound. That is 'the GTK+ way' of doing things... Cheers//Frank -- WWWWW ________________________ ## o o\ / Frank de Lange \ }# \| / +46-734352015 \ \ `--| _/ <Hacker for Hire> \ `---' \ +31-640037120 / \ frank(a)unternet.org / `------------------------' [ "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est." ]

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] [PATCH] version 11 of tab/frame patch, added keyboard navigation

by Frank de Lange

Stephan Goetter wrote: >Hi, > >I just got this, after opening a new tab, going to >http://www.foobar123.org/ (yes, it doesn't exist :) >and then trying to close the Tab. > >Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault. >Menu_pick_url (widget=0x8158e80, client_data=0x8113f20) at menu.c:112 >112 gtk_object_remove_data(GTK_OBJECT (bw->menu_popup.over_image), "url2"); >(gdb) backtrace full >#0 Menu_pick_url (widget=0x8158e80, client_data=0x8113f20) at menu.c:112 > bw = (struct _BrowserWindow *) 0x8113f20 >#1 0x40142ef6 in gtk_marshal_NONE__NONE () from /usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 >No symbol table info available. >#2 0x40187e16 in gtk_signal_remove_emission_hook () from /usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 >No symbol table info available. >#3 0x40186f3b in gtk_signal_handlers_destroy () from /usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 >No symbol table info available. >#4 0x40184b8e in gtk_signal_emit () from /usr/lib/libgtk-1.2.so.0 >No symbol table info available. >... > >Greets, >Stephan > > Hmmm, this did not happen here, but that was caused by me using a proxy (privoxy) which produces a nice 'not found' page... Will look in to it asap... Cheers//Frank -- WWWWW ________________________ ## o o\ / Frank de Lange \ }# \| / +46-734352015 \ \ `--| _/ <Hacker for Hire> \ `---' \ +31-640037120 / \ frank(a)unternet.org / `------------------------' [ "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est." ]

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] [PATCH] version 11 of tab/frame patch, added keyboard navigation

by Frank de Lange

johannes leimbach wrote: >Hi! > >You're patch works fine, thanks for the good work. >One (minor) bug though: > >It seems to mess up the tab order of the elements. >Take for example an online forum (phpbb). Go to "Login", so you must >enter an username+password. Before the patch (in 0.7.3) i could set the >focus from textbox 2 textbox with TAB, now it "jump" to a (for me) random >element. > > Yeah, Tab is a bit weird right now. I'll probably bind Tab to gtk_contain_focus (the way it was) in the next version, both for the tab/frame and non-frame version of the patch.. Cheers//Frank -- WWWWW ________________________ ## o o\ / Frank de Lange \ }# \| / +46-734352015 \ \ `--| _/ <Hacker for Hire> \ `---' \ +31-640037120 / \ frank(a)unternet.org / `------------------------' [ "Omnis enim res, quae dando non deficit, dum habetur et non datur, nondum habetur, quomodo habenda est." ]

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Problem: Dillo not rendering /. correctly

by Ralph Slooten

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:36:17 +0200 johannes leimbach <johannes.leimbach(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Do you have any ideas what might cause this visual annoyance? Yeah, many errors on /.org ... too many. I files a bug report there which just went unnoticed and was marked within 1 day as "closed", even though there was no difference. Due to this problem, and the fact that I love Dillo and slashdot, I created my own site which downloads (using a local cookie) and renders slashdot (front page only) through tidy. If the main page is what you are looking for, you can use my site (works ONLY for Dillo, rejects other browsers totally) at http://slashdot.axljab.homelinux.org/ Greetings Ralph -- http://axljab.homelinux.org/ "...the software said Win95 or better, so I installed Linux"

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by Melvin Hadasht

Hi, > How do I turn off anti-aliasing? I'd like to try it again if you think this > may speed-up redraws. add something like this in your ~/.fonts.conf <match target="font"> <test qual="any" name="size" compare="more"> <int>7</int> </test> <test qual="any" name="size" compare="less"> <int>10</int> </test> <edit name="antialias" mode="assign"> <bool>false</bool> </edit> </match> This will turnoff AA for sizes between 7 and 10 points Cheers -- Melvin Hadasht

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Re: gtk2 and dillo ( was FLTK )

by Philip Blundell

On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 17:29, Stephen Lewis wrote: > dillo2 > Time to load+render: ~3s > Time to quit: 0.5s (estimated, "felt" slower than dillo1) > Size: 14MB If I recall correctly, there is a bug in the gtk2 patch which causes the text rendering routine to leak large amounts of memory. I have a fix for that somewhere. p.

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: gtk2 and dillo ( was FLTK )

by Stephen Lewis

On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 10:20:11AM -0300, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote: > > This is also an RFC for information on GTK+2 (speed, size, > linkings etc). > > Please back your opinions with links, docs, facts or with > whatever helps better to understand the point. Maybe a single > email can show there's no way to do it, or maybe not! I've just been playing with the GTK+2 patch, and I've got some numbers (I won't call them fact :), and opinions: These are on a 500Mhz Intel PC, with 256MB RAM. dillo2 refers to the patched GTK+2 version, dillo1 is GTK1.2 based ( both todays CVS ). The machine is running FreeBSD 5.1 The numbers are basically estimated, but I tried each test several times and got similar results. Test 1: Base load times dillo1 Time to load+render: ~1s Time to quit: instantaneous Size (from top): 7MB dillo2 Time to load+render: ~3s Time to quit: 0.5s (estimated, "felt" slower than dillo1) Size: 14MB Test2: Loading a 1.8MB html file, styled text, bulletted lists, tables of text dillo1 Time to load: 3s extra time to finish rendering: 6s Time to quit: ~2s Size: 56MB dillo2 Time to load: 1m20s real according to the time command, more like 2m30s due to swapping extra time to finish rendering: 10s Time to close: 1m20s Size: 220MB Test3: Loading a trivial 70k html file ( no images or tables, just text in a list ) dillo1 Time to load+render: 1s Time to quit: instantaneous Size: 9MB dillo2 Time to load: 5s Time to render: <1s Time to quit: < 1s Size: 16MB Test4: Loading a 1.5MB html file (fairly simple, no images, few tables) dillo1 Time to load: ~3s extra time to finish rendering: ~6s Time to quit: ~1s Size: 36MB Time to scroll entire length of document by holding pagedown: ~26s dillo2 Time to load: 40s extra time to finish rendering: 2s Time to quit: 16s Size: 125MB Time to scroll entire length of document by holding pagedown: 20s A couple of behavioural notes: 1) Progressive rendering wasn't useful in dillo2, you get an initial draw (which is largely useless), then dillo2 blocks, then the final draw. 2) Scrolling is implemented in quite a different fashion in GTK2 vs GTK1, which has a higher latency, slower "feel". I suspect that GTK+1 would feel as bad using its algorithm if it were using anti-aliased fonts ( opinion based on little evidence ) This isn't really a problem for sequential scrolling, but random seeking by dragging the scrollbar is very irritating under GTK+2 I think this is due to changes relating to the "draw" signal, mentioned in the GTK1.2-2.0 changelog: ... GTK+ merges all invalid regions, and sends expose events to the widget in an idle handler for the invalid regions. ... The things that I found pretty much unusable were - load times ( for anything non-trivial ) - close times ( for large documents ) - memory usage If it's not possible to mitigate these in a GTK+2 version of dillo, then I personally wouldn't find it to be a usable choice anymore (which would suck - I like dillo). On the other hand, if those numbers could be brought down to even, say, twice what dillo1 requires, I think it would be fine (at least, on my hardware). -- Stephen Lewis

Oct. 16, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by Sebastian Geerken

On Wed, Oct 15, Stephan Goetter wrote: > gtk-gnutella (http://gtk-gnutella.sf.net/) has similar performance > problems with GTK2. There is a comment about a 1 Ghz PC.. > > Currently they do it like this way. > > #ifndef USE_GTK2 > #define g_ascii_strcasecmp g_strcasecmp > #define gdk_drawable_get_size gdk_window_get_size > #endif > > Don't know if this is an option for dillo (recent talks) and > what is left in the gtk2-patch after using such macros. No, there are much more dependencies, to GtkObject/GObject, to the GtkLayout widget, and to Pango, about which we actually hoped, that it may help us to solve many M17n problems. Sebastian

Oct. 15, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by Sebastian Geerken

Hi Eric! Only some remarks about my experiences. I'm only using Gtk 2.0 and Pango 1.0, I'll update to see if it makes a difference. Startup time is a bit difficult to measure, since the disk cache state etc. may influence this. What I found out: - Dillo1 uses libraries which take 4351.38 KB of disk space, while the libs dillo2 uses take 6714.99. For this, I've simpy added the sizes of the files from the output of "ldd". - After having already started both versions, and measured the startup time (with a non-existing file, so that no rendering time can be assumed), dillo2 uses a bit more time (0.11 secs, as opposed to 0.08 secs on my rather new box), which may be due to an increased time for initialization. I've found no difference in drawing time, but this has only played a bit time in dillo1 (at least for text). I've not configured anything for Pango, and from what I see on the screen, anti-aliasing (which may take much time) is turned off. What *does* take far more time is the initial rendering, while rewrapping is exactly as fast as before. This (and also that Pango is only used for drawing, and determing the size of fonts and words) lets me assume that Dw_page_shape_glyphs is not very efficient. I've tried to track down this with gprof, but somehow the profile does not give me much clues. Perhaps it is worth to optimize this code. (The comparison is a bit unfair because of the different grades of matureness :-) Sebastian PS: Like Jorge, I read the list, too :-)

Oct. 15, 2003

RE: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by Eric Gaudet

> Hi Eric! > Hi Sebastian, > Only some remarks about my experiences. I'm only using Gtk 2.0 and > Pango 1.0, I'll update to see if it makes a difference. > > Startup time is a bit difficult to measure, since the disk cache state > etc. may influence this. What I found out: > ... As I said before, in my tests I always started with a dry run to make sure the libraries and files were loaded or buffered in RAM. The time differences between the first run and subsequent runs was very small in avarage, but could vary a lot. Also, as I said, startup time is slightly longer but still acceptable. If this was the only drawback with gtk2, I would be fine with it. > I've found no difference in drawing time, but this has only played a > bit time in dillo1 (at least for text). I've not configured anything > for Pango, and from what I see on the screen, anti-aliasing (which may > take much time) is turned off. > How do I turn off anti-aliasing? I'd like to try it again if you think this may speed-up redraws. > What *does* take far more time is the initial rendering, while > rewrapping is exactly as fast as before. This (and also that Pango is > only used for drawing, and determing the size of fonts and words) lets > me assume that Dw_page_shape_glyphs is not very efficient. I've tried > to track down this with gprof, but somehow the profile does not give > me much clues. Perhaps it is worth to optimize this code. (The > comparison is a bit unfair because of the different grades of > matureness :-) > I did't try rewrapping (changing the window's size), only scrolling down and up by one full page. I can try to rewrap and scroll line by line if you want. What is the purpose of Dw_page_shape_glyphs? Best, EG

Oct. 15, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by Jorge Arellano Cid

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Stephan Goetter wrote: > Hi, > > gtk-gnutella (http://gtk-gnutella.sf.net/) has similar performance > problems with GTK2. There is a comment about a 1 Ghz PC.. FWIW, the comment (15/Jun/2003) is: <q> * The GTK2 front-end is no longer experimental, albeit it is slower than the GTK1.2 front-end. This is due to the somewhat inefficient implementation of the underlying GTK library. Don't use GTK2 unless you have the equivalent of a 1 GHz Intel chip. </q> Cheers Jorge.-

Oct. 15, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] FLTK

by Stephan Goetter

Hi, gtk-gnutella (http://gtk-gnutella.sf.net/) has similar performance problems with GTK2. There is a comment about a 1 Ghz PC.. Currently they do it like this way. #ifndef USE_GTK2 #define g_ascii_strcasecmp g_strcasecmp #define gdk_drawable_get_size gdk_window_get_size #endif Don't know if this is an option for dillo (recent talks) and what is left in the gtk2-patch after using such macros. Stephan

Oct. 15, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] [PATCH] version 11 of tab/frame patch, added keyboard navigation

by johannes leimbach

Hi! You're patch works fine, thanks for the good work. One (minor) bug though: It seems to mess up the tab order of the elements. Take for example an online forum (phpbb). Go to "Login", so you must enter an username+password. Before the patch (in 0.7.3) i could set the focus from textbox 2 textbox with TAB, now it "jump" to a (for me) random element. Would be nice if you could check this out. Cheers, johannes :)

Oct. 15, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Development

by Jorge Arellano Cid

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Carlos Daniel Ruvalcaba Valenzuela wrote: > Hi everyone > > It sems i lost a lot of the development cycle, now even plugins > are implemented! > > Anyways, here is my wasted effort with dillo-0.7.3: > > [...] > What a shame you've missed the large work being done on dpid :( > Any comments?, anyone wants the patches? Certainly your expertise can be reused. Do you have some more time? For instance, there's a guy working on the Gtk+ interface to the downloads plugin. You could work together. Preferences is another interesting area... Cheers Jorge.-

Oct. 15, 2003

Re: [Dillo-dev] Problem: Dillo not rendering /. correctly

by Victor Sahlstedt

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:36:17 +0200 johannes leimbach <johannes.leimbach(a)gmx.de> wrote: > Do you have any ideas what might cause this visual annoyance? http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=www.slashdot.org Maybe the 348 errors has something to do with it.. - Victor

Oct. 15, 2003

A short potpourri

by Eythan Weg

Hi, I have read that people use dillo to read documents, long documents, and perhaps whole books, or chapters... In such cases there comes a time when a use of a dictionary is a must. Is it possible to have a dpi that will allow for the running of any shell command on a highlighted portion of the screen? In this example running a dictionary on a word? The output of the command would go into a new tab, or window or split of the current window, horizontally or vertically, depending on the key-binding. On another vein, I have two problems with version 8-pre of about two weeks ago patched with the tab-frame feature (I compiled yesterday's version with the new patch, but could not figure how to start the dpis... can someone tell how in some more details, please?) The first is over-tabbing. For example browsing http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnomemeeting-list/ choose any thread and it opens on a new tab. Read any post and again it opens in a new tab. The second is that copy and/or paste do not work reliably. I am not sure this is dillo's issue though. Sincerely, eythan

Oct. 15, 2003