Hi Guys, Just a quick enquiry about software we would like to give out at Software Freedom Day. One of our members has offered to burn a number of Linux Mint CD's and DVD'd to give out at the event, coupled with a howto guide to show how to install it. One of our other members thinks we can't do that because Linux Mint comes with Proprietary media codecs. My thoughts on it is that it's a day about celebrating software freedom, and that taking a hard line on stuff that doesn't conform to FSF guide lines on free software isn't really the event for it, my views is that workshops and discussion groups on why using free-codecs is better than using proprietary-codecs i think is a great idea. Sort of advertising alternatives, rather than saying YOU CAN'T USE THAT I have the nasty thought that we have all of these potential new users, who the minute they go to play their music or videos sit there and say "well free software is good but you can't play stuff i'll just boot back in to windows" You guys have any ideas or am i just making more out of it than i should -- Arron M Finnon President The UAD Linux Society www.thelinuxsociety.org.uk
Hi Arron, <quote who="Arron M Finnon">
One of our members has offered to burn a number of Linux Mint CD's and DVD'd to give out at the event, coupled with a howto guide to show how to install it.
Mint is lovely, a really pretty distro.
One of our other members thinks we can't do that because Linux Mint comes with Proprietary media codecs.
It is for this reason that SFI couldn't distribute such a distro for the teams, however what teams decide to distribute is their own choice (so long as it fits in with the spirit of software freedom). I've personally always believed that the path to freedom is a series of steps, and that introducing people in a practical and positive way to FOSS is a great way to turn them into users and advocates. If you start with _NO_ you can't do that then you've immediately started with a negative. For me personally I was using FOSS for a couple of years before the broader socio-economic impacts and the importance of software freedom really hit me, so it'd be unfair to expect newcomers to get all of it in a few minutes :)
I have the nasty thought that we have all of these potential new users, who the minute they go to play their music or videos sit there and say "well free software is good but you can't play stuff i'll just boot back in to windows"
Yeah, this is a really important point. We need to help users really commit to software freedom, but if we don't arm them with tools (and knowhow) then we are setting them up to be turned off FOSS and software freedom. If they are able to play MP3's but are given the understanding about open options like OGG, then they can start the process of transcoding while still having access to their existing music collection.
You guys have any ideas or am i just making more out of it than i should
It is a good conversation, and thank you for bringing it up! Cheers, Pia -- OLPC Australia http://olpc.org.au/ Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ Open Source Industry Australia http://osia.net.au/ Software Freedom Day http://softwarefreedomday.org/ "Man is born free, yet he is everywhere in chains." - Jean Jacques Rosseau
Pia Waugh wrote:
Hi Arron,
<quote who="Arron M Finnon">
One of our members has offered to burn a number of Linux Mint CD's and
[...]
For me personally I was using FOSS for a couple of years before the broader socio-economic impacts and the importance of software freedom really hit me, so it'd be unfair to expect newcomers to get all of it in a few minutes :)
Exactly similar for me. I have been a committed linux and foss user for some years and a sfd activist, however, it was only when I spent several hours(!) watching a richard stallman video (his talk at manchester recently note 1) that I realised the full meaning of it all! If I can miss the full meaning or freedom then a wannabee newbie certainly can. I recall it took me a long time before starting linux use, and there were enough initial hurdles to cross. I like the idea of getting people started asap, then taking the hurdles step by step. Note 1: Free Software in Ethics and Society - Richard Stallman - Manchester 1st May 2008 http://manchester.fsuk.org/blog/2008/05/06/free-software-in-ethics-and-socie... -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 Linux user #360648
Arron M Finnon wrote:
Hi Guys,
Just a quick enquiry about software we would like to give out at Software Freedom Day.
One of our members has offered to burn a number of Linux Mint CD's and DVD'd to give out at the event, coupled with a howto guide to show how to install it.
One of our other members thinks we can't do that because Linux Mint comes with Proprietary media codecs.
My thoughts on it is that it's a day about celebrating software freedom, and that taking a hard line on stuff that doesn't conform to FSF guide lines on free software isn't really the event for it, my views is that workshops and discussion groups on why using free-codecs is better than using proprietary-codecs i think is a great idea. Sort of advertising alternatives, rather than saying YOU CAN'T USE THAT
I have the nasty thought that we have all of these potential new users, who the minute they go to play their music or videos sit there and say "well free software is good but you can't play stuff i'll just boot back in to windows"
You guys have any ideas or am i just making more out of it than i should
If it not a problem for Mint which is making the images available on a grand scale then I am inclined to think that your concerned friend might be worrying a bit too much. You may be lucky to hand out more than a dozen CDs or so, not 10 million. The windows culture, along with the conventional retail culture has bred intense suspicion about any 'Free' handout! I seem to recall that even microsoft, who were paying big money to someone for mp3 rights, were apparently paying money to the wrong people! It is not necessarily clear cut. What is your objective on SFD? Is it to make people aware of software freedom, offer freedom opportunities, information? If you have some Mint, then I cannot see a problem. The problem I would see with Mint is that it is not known by the ordinary Windows user, whereas I suspect the stronger branding of Ubuntu is more likely to be known. That is my experience at my local computer fairs, anyway. Mint might be relevant for someone who comes along wanting information and asking about multimedia specifically. Most windows users have never installed Windows themselves, and probably would not dream of doing it. So if they begin to think of alternatives, then my approach would be to point to a major active forum such as ubuntu forums. Which ever distro is offered, they will first see 1) an alternative to windows (choice, is a major point to get across) 2) it seems basically easy and at a first glance functional 3) that is really *is* different to Windows, so wil need a bit of commitment - including finding out about extra stuff. In addition to Linux Live CDs, an obvious handout is the opendisc and the openeducation disc http://theopendisc.com/ http://www.theopendisc.com/education/ These are programs for Windows, which are good for 1) informing about Open Source Free software 2) being easy for most passers by to accept! It may also be useful to keep in mind that Ubuntu now includes a Windows Installer (WUBI). This means that putting the CD into a running windows machine brings up the option of installing into windows as a windows application! No formatting, no undue cautions about serious backing up first etc etc. Uninstall is also trivial and reliable. Also I know that ubuntu 8.04 has automagical facilities of getting and installing codecs on the hoof. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391
Hello, 2008/5/29, Arron M Finnon <afinnon@googlemail.com>:
One of our other members thinks we can't do that because Linux Mint comes with Proprietary media codecs.
I'm on his side.
(...) my views is that workshops and discussion groups on why using free-codecs is better than using proprietary-codecs i think is a great idea.
I think so too.
Sort of advertising alternatives, rather than saying YOU CAN'T USE THAT
I'd rather say "It's _possible_ to use that, but that's not what free software is all about." If we continue to accept proprietary software/codecs, we'll end up with the same problems we have today.
I have the nasty thought that we have all of these potential new users, who the minute they go to play their music or videos sit there and say "well free software is good but you can't play stuff i'll just boot back in to windows"
In my view, the SFD is the perfect opportunity to teach people exactly that proprietary formats/codecs already make them dependent on one vendor's mercy. If they continue to use them, they don't really gain freedom and don't exert their market power to push vendors to open standards. Greetings, Guido
Guido Arnold wrote:
Hello,
2008/5/29, Arron M Finnon <afinnon@googlemail.com>:
One of our other members thinks we can't do that because Linux Mint comes with Proprietary media codecs.
I'm on his side.
(...) my views is that workshops and discussion groups on why using free-codecs is better than using proprietary-codecs i think is a great idea.
I think so too.
Sort of advertising alternatives, rather than saying YOU CAN'T USE THAT
I'd rather say "It's _possible_ to use that, but that's not what free software is all about." If we continue to accept proprietary software/codecs, we'll end up with the same problems we have today.
I have the nasty thought that we have all of these potential new users, who the minute they go to play their music or videos sit there and say "well free software is good but you can't play stuff i'll just boot back in to windows"
In my view, the SFD is the perfect opportunity to teach people exactly that proprietary formats/codecs already make them dependent on one vendor's mercy. If they continue to use them, they don't really gain freedom and don't exert their market power to push vendors to open standards.
Your points are good ones, however, the continuing use of the word 'Free' rather than Freedom or Libre causes a lot of confusion to passers by. If you can get anyone to accept any popular live CD and leaflet you are doing very well. To actually get them to *use* it when they get home tired, even better! To differentiate between the concept of free of monetary cost and freedom itself, that is a tough one. If you can get anyone passing by to accept a CD on the basis that it bestows 'freedom' you will be doing amazingly well. In fact at my regular information FOSS displays at my local computer fairs I always have headline poster references to 'Freedom from being Locked in?' And I use 'Freedom Software' as one poster. And I think it does have an effect. But my customers are regulars - I have been there a couple of years now. A question - what will the volunteer who likes Mint do on SFDay? Will he still be attending if he cannot do what he obviously feels passionate about? Denying the use of Mint might end up loosing you an energetic helper? A bit pyrrhic maybe? -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391
Hi all, <quote who="alan c">
Your points are good ones, however, the continuing use of the word 'Free' rather than Freedom or Libre causes a lot of confusion to passers by. If you can get anyone to accept any popular live CD and leaflet you are doing very well. To actually get them to *use* it when they get home tired, even better! To differentiate between the concept of free of monetary cost and freedom itself, that is a tough one. If you can get anyone passing by to accept a CD on the basis that it bestows 'freedom' you will be doing amazingly well.
In fact at my regular information FOSS displays at my local computer fairs I always have headline poster references to 'Freedom from being Locked in?' And I use 'Freedom Software' as one poster. And I think it does have an effect. But my customers are regulars - I have been there a couple of years now.
Actually, this made me remember something that worked really well for the last few SFD events I've been involved in locally. We found that the term "socially responsibly software" was a great was to start a conversation with someone and to get them in the right frame of mind to talk about the freedom aspects of FOSS rather than the cost. People were really intrigued about the concept of socially responsible software as many of the people we spoke to are quite disillusioned with technology and found this approach refreshing. Hopefully that is helpful :) Cheers, Pia -- OLPC Australia http://olpc.org.au/ Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ Open Source Industry Australia http://osia.net.au/ Software Freedom Day http://softwarefreedomday.org/
We go one step further, Pia -- here in Felton, California, we call it "organic software" No artificial flavorings or preservatives -- it just works and keeps your computer healthy! Larry Cafiero HeliOS Solutions West 6116 Highway 9, Suite 4B Felton, CA 95018 USA "Bringing FOSS to the redwoods" On 5/29/08, Pia Waugh <greebo@pipka.org> wrote:
Hi all,
<quote who="alan c">
Your points are good ones, however, the continuing use of the word 'Free' rather than Freedom or Libre causes a lot of confusion to passers by. If you can get anyone to accept any popular live CD and leaflet you are doing very well. To actually get them to *use* it when they get home tired, even better! To differentiate between the concept of free of monetary cost and freedom itself, that is a tough one. If you can get anyone passing by to accept a CD on the basis that it bestows 'freedom' you will be doing amazingly well.
In fact at my regular information FOSS displays at my local computer fairs I always have headline poster references to 'Freedom from being Locked in?' And I use 'Freedom Software' as one poster. And I think it does have an effect. But my customers are regulars - I have been there a couple of years now.
Actually, this made me remember something that worked really well for the last few SFD events I've been involved in locally. We found that the term "socially responsibly software" was a great was to start a conversation with someone and to get them in the right frame of mind to talk about the freedom aspects of FOSS rather than the cost. People were really intrigued about the concept of socially responsible software as many of the people we spoke to are quite disillusioned with technology and found this approach refreshing.
Hopefully that is helpful :)
Cheers, Pia
-- OLPC Australia http://olpc.org.au/ Linux Australia http://linux.org.au/ Open Source Industry Australia http://osia.net.au/ Software Freedom Day http://softwarefreedomday.org/
_______________________________________________ SFD-discuss mailing list SFD-discuss@sf-day.org http://mail.sf-day.org/lists/listinfo/sfd-discuss
Pia Waugh wrote:
Hi all,
<quote who="alan c">
Your points are good ones, however, the continuing use of the word 'Free' rather than Freedom or Libre causes a lot of confusion to passers by. If you can get anyone to accept any popular live CD and leaflet you are doing very well. To actually get them to *use* it when they get home tired, even better! To differentiate between the concept of free of monetary cost and freedom itself, that is a tough one. If you can get anyone passing by to accept a CD on the basis that it bestows 'freedom' you will be doing amazingly well.
In fact at my regular information FOSS displays at my local computer fairs I always have headline poster references to 'Freedom from being Locked in?' And I use 'Freedom Software' as one poster. And I think it does have an effect. But my customers are regulars - I have been there a couple of years now.
Actually, this made me remember something that worked really well for the last few SFD events I've been involved in locally. We found that the term "socially responsibly software" was a great was to start a conversation with someone and to get them in the right frame of mind to talk about the freedom aspects of FOSS rather than the cost. People were really intrigued about the concept of socially responsible software as many of the people we spoke to are quite disillusioned with technology and found this approach refreshing.
Hopefully that is helpful :)
Yes that sounds good Pia, thanks. I can imagine that it will be a fine conversation starter. It also avoids that thorny matter of 'free' stuff which people think they get anyway by downloading any thing from the internet. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 Linux user #360648
Arron M Finnon wrote:
Hi Guys,
Just a quick enquiry about software we would like to give out at Software Freedom Day.
One of our members has offered to burn a number of Linux Mint CD's and DVD'd to give out at the event, coupled with a howto guide to show how to install it.
One of our other members thinks we can't do that because Linux Mint comes with Proprietary media codecs.
The mere fact it's illegal in many places should be the end of the discussion. Another thing I don't want to promote is the use of patented software. I would have thought that to be obvious by now, specially on this list, but I'll gladly help getting more information to understand this. It's an important part of the questions we get everytime we promote any free software in Quebec (and Colombia, in my personal case). Cheers, Fabian
participants (6)
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alan c -
Arron M Finnon -
Fabian Rodriguez -
Guido Arnold -
Larry Cafiero -
Pia Waugh