Rogutes Sparnuotos wrote:

Benjamin Johnson (2011-10-20 15:56):How should dillo behave when a user binds Ctrl-A?

It should perform the action bound to Ctrl-A, of course. Just to clarify, the only thing I want to change is the key bindings when the user is typing in the URL input box. Specifically, I'm talking about the CustInput::handle() function in ui.cc: http://hg.dillo.org/dillo/file/e82663b3c477/src/ui.cc#l96 Dillo intercepts several key bindings normally handled by the input box itself. The problem is, some of these key bindings conventionally have different meanings than Dillo assigns (see below). Not all the bindings are bad. I'd keep the binding for Ctrl-L, for example, which rehighlights the input text when you're typing in the box. That's pretty intuitive, and matches the behavior of other browsers. On the other hand, most users aren't familiar with Unix command line bindings, and even those who are usually don't expect that behavior in a graphical application such as Dillo. It might be convenient, but usability isn't always about convenience; it's about doing what users *expect*. Basically, a good interface is one an unwitting mere mortal could figure out without ever reading the manual, or even thinking too hard. Joel Spolsky explains it a lot better than I do: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/uibook/fog0000000249.html

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Having it consistent over all text inputs and configurable via> keysrc sounds reasonable to me. I don't know the keysrc details> though, so I might miss something.> >Cheers,> >JohannesHaving input/insert mode and macros in keysrc would be interesting, if nottoo complex.

It would be interesting, but it certainly would be complex, and I'm not sure the benefits outweigh the costs. I suspect most users are probably fine with just the basic key bindings FLTK already provides. There's also the matter of consistency, not just within Dillo, but between Dillo and other FLTK applications. Part of the advantage of using a toolkit *is* the consistency; that was the original motivation behind KDE, for example.

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I was thinking just a simple boolean option in dillorc -- and turn> it OFF by default (i.e., no Unix keys), because it's not typical GUI> behavior, and anyone who wants it on can quite easily set it in his> or her own dillorc.Would be a strange dillorc option. A real patch would implement this inkeysrc :)

Hard-coding is much stranger than either of those, and much uglier, too. The dillorc option would actually make sense here, because these particular bindings usually go together as a group (it seems weird to do the Unix Ctrl-A, but not the others). Though it would make more sense still just to leave well enough alone, since there's no real need to change the input box's behavior.

Somehow I failed to notice that Ctrl-A for select all is "typical GUI behavior", perhaps I am not using GUIs enough... [...snip...] Here, Ctrl-A goes to the beginning of the line in all the input boxes ("find text", "web search", <input> in forms).

Ctrl-A is conventionally used for select all, and at least on Windows, FLTK binds it to select all in input boxes. It may be that FLTK uses the Unix bindings (Ctrl-A for beginning of line, Ctrl-E for end, etc.) on those platforms, in which case Dillo's hard-coding that behavior is pointless and redundant. I haven't booted into Unix in a while, so offhand I haven't checked. Now, I know there will likely never be Windows support in mainline Dillo, and so you're probably wondering why Windows' key bindings should matter to you. While Unix doesn't have any formal standards for graphical user interface design -- indeed, the X Window System was deliberately designed that way -- most toolkits tend to follow what Windows does. Windows has explicit formal standards for command names, menu layouts, shortcut keys, etc., and not only are they standardized (at least on that platform), they're also well known since roughly 97% of desktop computer users run a Windows operating system. (Microsoft also helped design Motif, if anyone remembers that -- which is kind of weird for me to say, since I was roughly two years old at the time. Moving on...) For reference, here's FLTK's human interface guidelines, which borrow "common elements from the CDE/Motif, GNOME, KDE, MacOS, and Windows environments": http://www.fltk.org/hig.php And here's a list of standard accelerator keys from Qt's documentation, which explicitly recommends following Microsoft's recommendations: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/5.0-snapshot/accelerators.html To get back on topic, what does all this mean for Dillo? My own opinion is, the toolkit designers put a lot of thought into this stuff, and probably know more about how their widgets should behave than you and I do. So personally, I don't think we should override that behavior at all unless there's a really good reason to do so.

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Although I will add, the Shift-{Left,Right} bindings in the address> bar *have* to go. They're fine elsewhere, if a bit quirky, but in> the address bar they interfere with text selection. Ctrl-Tab and> Ctrl-Shift-Tab are much more logical and convenient, anyway.> ~Benjamin Are we using different versions of dillo? Shift-{Left,Right} doesn't do anything here.

I'm talking about this block of code right here: http://hg.dillo.org/dillo/file/e82663b3c477/src/ui.cc#l117 Pressing Shift-{Left,Right} in the address bar moves between tabs, rather than selecting text as expected. (Maybe something left over from dillo2?)

For the arguments sake, how would having to press Ctrl-Shift-Tab be more "logical and convenient" than Shift-Left? It's a matter of taste (habit). In my opinion, both bindings have a disadvantage: Ctrl-Shift-Tab is difficult for the fingers, Shift-Left is unusual to most people. That's why it is configurable, isn't it?---- Rogut s Sparnuotos

Well, Ctrl-Tab's nice because of the obvious mnemonic; because it's really easy to type; and (you can probably guess what's coming) because it's familiar, since lots of other browsers use it. In contrast, the Shift-{Left,Right} keys are much harder to type, especially on a cramped laptop keyboard where your fingers are right on top of each other. And of course, it's a bit weird because I (and probably most users) associate those keys with "select text," not "change tabs." Basically, what all this boils down to is that consistency is key. Yes, it may be the hobgoblin of little minds, but when faced with an unfamiliar interface, *every* user has a little mind. So anyway, there's my rant for tonight. :-) Regards & cheers, ~Benjamin