Hi Jan, On Thu, Aug 31, 2006 at 02:15:16PM +0200, Jan Stary wrote:
Hi all,
On Aug 24 17:07:21, Sam Trenholme wrote:
The problem is that Dillo doesn't support a lot of high-profile internet sites right now.
I would look at the "i18n" version and try and add Javascript support to it (or, better yet, EMCAscript support). Personally, I think Dillo needs some level of Javascript support; a lot of high-profile sites (can we say MySpace and their crappy JavaScript and HTML) plain simply do not work without Javascript.
I also believe that Dillo shouldn't try to get CSS support; the last thing I want is yet another browser with buggy CSS that I have to design around. If Dillo is going to support CSS, I don't think the support should become a part of a stable release of Dillo until Dillo can render ACID2 perfectly. A site that uses CSS is perfectly usable, albeit a bit ugly, in a browser that doesn't have CSS.
On Aug 24 21:56:17, Hans Hohenfeld wrote:
I definitely disagree. From my point of view, CSS is the most missing feature in Dillo. Frames are minor impotant (as only bad websites use them), Javascript is very much necessary, but CSS seems to be the most important feature Dillo needs. Some basic CSS attributes like colors, positioning would be a good start. I agree, that it is very important to implement CSS support as close to the standard as possible.
I also think that CSS is the most missing feature - while a well written page using CSS looks good even without it, many pages just rely on being CSS-interpreted (or look ugly). HTML/CSS is the most basic combo for a browser anyway, I think.
Different people tend to prioritize differently. For instance, the embedded industry needs Javascript to develop custom GUIs and sometimes also for a certain site they _have_ to support. The soothing fact for CSS in Dillo is that the internal widget style design was made for CSS. So it's a matter of gluing it together. Once again: manpower
As for JavaScript, what pages worth reading need JavaScript to work? With the lack of dillo-dev manpower, this is a feature I don't really miss.
I'm not fond of Javascript either; it's a big security hole, but I also understand that it's a good way for developing WEB based GUIs for networked services.
Tabs, on the other hand, are extremely useful - I dream of the day they come to dillo, making it able to have many pages rendered at once (each with dillo's lightning speed).
Yes, they're useful. I used to enjoy tabs in the window manager (fluxbox), but I also understand there's plenty of people without tabs in the window manager. The main reason for not coding tabs already in the official dillo is that there were higher priorities. The tabs patch was a several-features in a huge combo that the author was not willing to split. The good news of this story is that you can get that patchset from a compilation by kiyo on what's regarded as the "i18n misc" dillo: http://teki.jpn.ph/pc/software/index-e.shtml I find this compilation a very good thing to have, bacause users get what they want while we can work on a more long-term viable dillo (see rationale in my former posts).
Frames are evil, everybody knows that.
Yes. Some sites need it though... (sigh) Lower priority. ... unless a company comes with some funds for speeding it.
On Aug 26 12:11:46, Jorge Arellano Cid wrote:
GTK1 is an abandoned library, it has become the much bigger, slower and capable GTK2, precisely because it was not suited for solving certain "desktop" problems. Dillo's main advantage is a tradeoff of features for speed. If the speed edge disappears, what do we have?
Totaly agreed.
As a matter of fact, the widget style structures inside Dillo are shaped for CSS, and we presented a CSS parser prototype at FOSDEM 2005. Merging the CSS parser into the current tree would start CSS support.
Looking at the FOSDEM presentation, I can't seem to find the CSS bits (in neither mgp or html - http://www.dillo.org/fosdem2005/dillo-18.html points to "http://www.dillo.org/fosdem2005/....." Can I get the CSS part of the presentation somewhere?
Unfortunately not. :-( We gave that conference with Sebastian at FOSDEM 2005, and it had the plus of some live demos. One of them was a CSS prototype! Unfortunately on the next conference (LSM 2005, which is on video available from dillo.org) I was alone, and this DEMO wasn't presented. The demo consisted of a page with a link to its CSS stylesheet; the interesting part was that CSS was applied on-the-fly! This is: Dillo started normal incremental rendering (no CSS), and when the CSS stylesheet arrived later, and while still loading the page, in a blink it changed to show the CSS style, and continued with page rendering until it fully arrived. FWIW, while in Germany we discussed how to design scripting support. Now that Dillo produces a DOM it's a matter of using dpi to communicate with the scripting engine. A prototype was developed too. The main point is lack of manpower/funds. We can _not_ continue developing without time (spare time is unrealistic for such a complex project as this). That's why I've struggled to find a way to fund full time development for at least the two core developers. When finally a couple of companies were willing to invest, the "risk management" factor came in and stopped it. I don't know how to surpass this problem (see my previous email for more details). -- Cheers Jorge.-